Creatine Use in Weight Lifting

[Munkay]

I've recently started to take pure Creatine to suppliment my workouts. I have a lot of friends here at school that have use creatine or have used it in the past. The reaction is a mixed bag.

I've done my fair share of reading up on Creatine, both online and from the little resources in our library, spoke to a friend of mine about it (a Chemistry Grad student), and had many conversations in the gym with users.

From what I've read Creatine became popular in the mid 70's. The actual chemical is Creatine Phosphate, and is commonly labeled Phosphagen now a days (a marketing ploy, I'm sure). Creatine is naturally found in the body, and works to give an extra boost when muscles are almost burnt out. The idea behind Creatine use is that it allows you more reps of the same weight, therefore increasing the 'tearing' to muscles which in turn creates more size and mass. There is also a residual effect of water absorbtion. Creatine suppliments do not work for everyone, since the body naturally produces Creatine and some people already produce the maximum amount a muscle can absorb.

The biggest issue is that there are no long term studies on Pure Creatine. There are plenty of brands out there that have additives that play with insulin levels in an attempt to increase muscle absorbtion, which obviously have some very detrimental long term effects.

So I'm left with personal experiences to draw the best educated conclusions about it. The question is, do any lurkers have experience, and/or friends who have used Creatine?

I'm well aware that many people feel at the end of the day suppliments shouldn't be used, and no suppliments are the only real way to minimize the risk to gain ratio. I'm trying to approach this in a way that I have a wealth of information to draw on for people who have already made a concious decision to use suppliments.

Any comments would be much appreciated. I'm not expecting much, but this is a community I value the opinions of, and wanted to be sure I posed it.

Biggest reason for this is my own personal knowledge/use. The second reason is I am planning on becoming a personal trainer.

Cheers,

Munk

[pakman]

When I used to lift in high school for football and track, I used Creatine for a while. Yes I did get stronger, but I found that I also bruised much easier for some odd reason. I was talking to my Biology teacher and he said that Creatine gives you more mass, but it also lifts the muscle itself away from the bone a bit. This lifting of the muscle can cause easier bruising because the bone is no longer absorbing the shock.

Also, this "creatine loading period" that it says to do on many bottles is a bunch of B.S. You only need to take the sccopful about 30 minutes before lifting so it has a chance to get into your system. Take any more and you will be literally pissing your money away.

I stopped taking it because I didn't like it. If you do take, it however, don't continually take it. Meaning use it for about two weeks, and then take a break from it, etc.

One question I do have for you is this, do you want to get bigger? Or do you just want to get leaner? Creatine is ont the right supplement if you just want to be more lean.

[Munkay]

One question I do have for you is this, do you want to get bigger? Or do you just want to get leaner?  Creatine is ont the right supplement if you just want to be more lean.
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I'm one of those skinny guys that can't put on weight if he tries. I'm roughly 6-8% body fat, and have a very fast metabolism. I've tried high cal diets, protein shakes, basically everything short of Creatine to put on weight. After 8 months of lifting, I gained roughly 8 pounds (6 in the first 3 months). I've been lifting intensely for the last 4 months, and I've put on another 3 pounds. But already I am starting to plateau a bit. I'm more interested in putting in 10 solid pounds of muscle, than getting 'jacked' out of my mind.

I have a small, very toned frame. I'll always be small, and I don't want to put a burden on my organs, namely my heart, with too much extra weight. I'm 6'0 and 150 pounds now, formly 137 pounds before I started lifting a year ago. Anyone who is 6'0 can relate that 150 is far from a hulking beast.

My biggest concern aside from health risks, is losing definition. I don't want to put on huge bulk muscle. From what I've heard though is the extra water retension will fade itself out after a while, and only the muscle size will stay. So i'm hoping that will be the end result, 10 pounds of lean muscle.

Am I misguided in my hopes?

As for cycling Creatine usage, I agree completely, and do not intend on using for more than a month with at least equal resting period inbetween.

Cheers,

Munk

[Ajax]

I've recently started to take pure Creatine to suppliment my workouts.  I have a lot of friends here at school that have use creatine or have used it in the past.  The reaction is  a mixed bag.

I've done my fair share of reading up on Creatine, both online and from the little resources in our library, spoke to a friend of mine about it (a Chemistry Grad student),  and had many conversations in the gym with users.

From what I've read Creatine became popular in the mid 70's.  The actual chemical is Creatine Phosphate, and is commonly labeled Phosphagen now a days (a marketing ploy, I'm sure).  Creatine is naturally found in the body, and works to give an extra boost when muscles are almost burnt out.  The idea behind Creatine use is that it allows you more reps of the same weight, therefore increasing the 'tearing' to muscles which in turn creates more size and mass.  There is also a residual effect of water absorbtion.  Creatine suppliments do not work for everyone, since the body naturally produces Creatine and some people already produce the maximum amount a muscle can absorb.

The biggest issue is that there are no long term studies on Pure Creatine.  There are plenty of brands out there that have additives that play with insulin levels in an attempt to increase muscle absorbtion, which obviously have some very detrimental long term effects.

So I'm left with personal experiences to draw the best educated conclusions about it.  The question is, do any lurkers have experience, and/or friends who have used Creatine?

I'm well aware that many people feel at the end of the day suppliments shouldn't be used, and no suppliments are the only real way to minimize the risk to gain ratio.  I'm trying to approach this in a way that I have a wealth of information to draw on for people who have already made a concious decision to use suppliments.

Any comments would be much appreciated.  I'm not expecting much, but this is a community I value the opinions of, and wanted to be sure I posed it.

Biggest reason for this is my own personal knowledge/use.  The second reason is I am planning on becoming a personal trainer.

Cheers,

Munk
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Munk--

A few thoughts on Creatone:

Web MD article

Another Article from WebMD

Some items of interest--

As one article points out, high-protein diets strain the kidneys, and creatine may make this problem even worse. Something to consider when evaluating the cost-benefit balance of using creatine is the possibility of long-term effects which we don't know much about yet.

Another issue--one of these articles quotes a trainer as saying, once the supplement is discontinued, the bulk disappears; and that the bulk is mostly due to water retention. If this is true, then creatine won't help you in your goals in any significant ways. This would impact the cost-benefit analysis (see above).

And finally, beware of your blood pressure. Lifters generally have high blood pressures, and their high protein diets usually have a fair bit of cholesterol in them. This can lead to early heart disease. And heart diseases can end your life. Thus, I like to recommend people balance their lifting with crosstraining. Good aerobic exercises are running and swimming. I'd recommend swimming if your goal is aesthetics--it helps to tone your body and balances the workout between your arms, torso, and legs. Running has a habit of making people look like frogs if they don't lift (frowns from personal experience). :-)

Some (more) personal experiences--

A friend of mine in high school was a linebacker on our football team. He took creatine for two reasons: (1) to improve performance and (2) to increase his mass from the water retention. He swore by the stuff, but claimed he got dehydrated much quicker using it. Now, protein metabolism uses a goodly amount of water in the first place (I assume you are on a high-protein diet to compliment your lifting regimen) so this is probably something you should take note of.

Another friend (my roommate last year, in fact) was built very similar to your description (6foot +, ~140lbs.) and over the course of three or four years of dedicated lifting he built himself up to 170lbs. Most of it was muscle, well-toned. Of course, I could run him into the ground, but he could outlift me by nearly 2x. (And he got more girls :-)) He did not use creatine, but he is a good example of what sheer dedication can do for your physical shape.

So, in sum I must cut to my advise. I do not know how much I trust the articles linked above, as they seem to contradict some of the individual experiences my friends have had with creatine. It probably will help a modest amount to your lifting, but I would recommend you not invest too much emotion in creatine as a "magic elixer" for your body. Instead, invest it in your lifting and try to break out of your plateau.

Also, getting out of the weight room is important for your overall health. Swimming is probably the best bet but if that's not an option all year because you don't live in California (but instead you're on the East Cost! Brrrr!) then running will work in a pinch. The aim here is to get in some aerobic exercises, to combat the high blook pressure and heart disease which may result from exclusive weight lifting. Of course, incorporating running or swimming into your training schedule probably will decrease your lifting performance, but it will help you tone your muscles.

Cheers,

[kandrathe]

I had the same problem when I was in my early 20's. From about 16 years old I had remained at about 6' and 120 lbs. My first year at the university I dormed with the football team, and so I started reading the Joe Wieder stuff and bulking up with my dorm buddies. I used many supplements but now I really don't remember the exact formulas we used.

Mostly what I did was a 4 day rotation of upper body one day followed by lower body, upper then lower, then 3 days of just cardio conditioning. The body builder technique as best as I can tell is to simultaneously over stress muscles (pump them up), while maintaining the highest possible nutritional replacement in the blood stream. Meaning that you must be consuming vast quantities of digestible proteins in various forms to supply all the required amino acid chains that are needed for muscle reconstruction.

The way I pumped was to do 5 sets of increasing reps per muscle group. So, for instance bicep curls; Do 30 reps, then let them rest, maybe do triceps for 30 reps, then pecs for 30, traps for 50, crunchs for 50, then repeat. If you can't complete a particular set then you need to back down the reps so that you can complete all 5 sets.

The hardest part is to regulate carbs to a reasonable amount for energy, and cut out all fat. You can't really cut out all of it as there are oils in most things and residual fat on even lean meats. I would consume at least 1 dozen egg white (no yolks), and 2 lbs of lean chicken or whitefish per day as well as drink about 6 protein milkshakes. I did that intensely for my freshman year and I have maintained my weight at about 170 lbs since. 165 is my ripped ideal.

[Munkay]

As one article points out, high-protein diets strain the kidneys, and creatine may make this problem even worse.  Something to consider when evaluating the cost-benefit balance of using creatine is the possibility of long-term effects which we don't know much about yet. 

Much agreed

Another issue--one of these articles quotes a trainer as saying, once the supplement is discontinued, the bulk disappears; and that the bulk is mostly due to water retention.  If this is true, then creatine won't help you in your goals in any significant ways.  This would impact the cost-benefit analysis (see above).

That is something that I read but have not actually seen. My friend across the hall, Peter, went from 6'1 165 pounds his sophomore year of highschool, to 6'1 215 pounds in just under 3 years. He stopped taking Creatine this summer, no longer lifts (but plays rugby aggressively), and is still 205 pounds. He said that none of his friends lost much weight once they got off Creatine, and that they all think it more has to do with the lack of intense lifting than loss of Water Retention.

My point? You definately lose the water retention, but from what they have said it appears to help build some muscle, not just water retention.

And finally, beware of your blood pressure.  Lifters generally have high blood pressures, and their high protein diets usually have a fair bit of cholesterol in them.  This can lead to early heart disease.  And heart diseases can end your life.  Thus, I like to recommend people balance their lifting with crosstraining.  Good aerobic exercises are running and swimming.  I'd recommend swimming if your goal is aesthetics--it helps to tone your body and balances the workout between your arms, torso, and legs.  Running has a habit of making people look like frogs if they don't lift (frowns from personal experience).  :-)

Could not agree more. I try to always keep a decent amount of cardio to my work out (whether that is biking or running). Swimming by far is the best I could do, although at the tender age of almost 20, I can't swim a lick. How did that happen? Long story. But the short end is that I'm going to learn, the aforementioned Peter is a certified instructor.

Some (more) personal experiences--

A friend of mine in high school was a linebacker on our football team.  He took creatine for two reasons: (1) to improve performance and (2) to increase his mass from the water retention.  He swore by the stuff, but claimed he got dehydrated much quicker using it.  Now, protein metabolism uses a goodly amount of water in the first place (I assume you are on a high-protein diet to compliment your lifting regimen) so this is probably something you should take note of. 

Heh. The funny thing is there are studies that show Creatine, for one reason or another, reduces brain damage and decreased time needed for repair. Creatine is what some studies attribute most football player's amazing ability to recover from concusions faster than the average human.

As far as dehydration goes, its vital to keep good track of. Especially since water retention in muscle means its taking water away from vital organs.

Another friend (my roommate last year, in fact) was built very similar to your description (6foot +, ~140lbs.) and over the course of three or four years of dedicated lifting he built himself up to 170lbs.  Most of it was muscle, well-toned.  Of course, I could run him into the ground, but he could outlift me by nearly 2x.  (And he got more girls :-))  He did not use creatine, but he is a good example of what sheer dedication can do for your physical shape.

Sheer dedication has turned me from an extremely scrawny kid to some one who gets recognized as a weight lifter. I've gone back and forth in my head over whether or not I want to suppliment, and whether the end result will feel cheapened due to supplimenting. I still haven't settled on an answer.

So, in sum I must cut to my advise.  I do not know how much I trust the articles linked above, as they seem to contradict some of the individual experiences my friends have had with creatine.  It probably will help a modest amount to your lifting, but I would recommend you not invest too much emotion in creatine as a "magic elixer" for your body.  Instead, invest it in your lifting and try to break out of your plateau. 

The articles seem to point to a common truth in life; Concentrate too much on one thing and you'll end up with bad results. You need a balance. Like you said, there is no magic elixer, and I am not holding this out to be. I rather am looking for a solid 10 pounds out of this, and the hope is that I never use Creatine again past the next 6 months.

Also, getting out of the weight room is important for your overall health.  Swimming is probably the best bet but if that's not an option all year because you don't live in California (but instead you're on the East Cost! Brrrr!) then running will work in a pinch.  The aim here is to get in some aerobic exercises, to combat the high blook pressure and heart disease which may result from exclusive weight lifting.  Of course, incorporating running or swimming into your training schedule probably will decrease your lifting performance, but it will help you tone your muscles.

There are many days I wish I was in California, for more than just warm oceans. New England weather is horrid, and often times you have a sinking feeling that you live in a developed marshland. And then you remember that the University you attend actually is on old marshland. Hehe.

I really hope to get swimming into my schedule, as my knees are genetically too pleased with running.

Appreciate the input,

Munk

[Munkay]

The hardest part is to regulate carbs to a reasonable amount for energy, and cut out all fat.  You can't really cut out all of it as there are oils in most things and residual fat on even lean meats.  I would consume at least 1 dozen egg white (no yolks), and 2 lbs of lean chicken or whitefish per day as well as drink about 6 protein milkshakes.  I did that intensely for my freshman year and I have maintained my weight at about 170 lbs since.  165 is my ripped ideal.

I wish I had a kitchen readily available here at school :(.

[Tal]

I wouldn't take it for bulking purposes if it were me. My best friend was a chemist with the FDA - one of the things they were looking at was creatine's effects in the body. He has since left to become a chemistry professor but the initial findings that he found has already been mentioned in the article linked previously - that it places a strain upon the kidneys.

I can certainly sympathize with your frustration at not gaining weight. I was 135 pounds up until I got married at age 23. Then I started gaining weight to 165. :)


Soooo go get married to an Italian woman* like me and you'll be ripped in no time. ;)


*Just not my Italian woman. ;)

[Chaerophon]

Munk,

When I was playing junior hockey I was heavy into weightlifting and used Creatine for several cycles. Eventually I found that it caused two problems. One, it was making me cramp up really bad, and two, and there's no way to be certain that it was the cause or not (but I think it might have had an effect) it eventually caused my moods to swing erratically. There are other people out there who believe that they have had similar issues. That being said, it could certainly be something else that caused the problem; I haven't really looked into whether or not that's a common problem.

Anyways, as far as the effects on your lifting go: it does help you to do more reps/sets. It also swells up your muscles real good. Your definition should improve, not get worse. I gained about 7-10 pounds of water weight during my cycles and after about the first two weeks of each one I looked a lot more ripped than I actually was (and then it went away during rest periods). Mind you, at the time, I was about 5'10", 195 pounds, and well-muscled, so our physiques may differ in their reactions :P

So, that all sounds good, right? I thought so at the time. Now, I'm not so sure. Having lifted for the past couple of years without the aid of any supplements (okay, so I haven't done it in 5 months... so sue me) I'm not really sure that Creatine did much other than make me look good. Then again, I'm only one person.

Hope that helps some.

[Chaerophon]

That is something that I read but have not actually seen.  My friend across the hall, Peter, went from 6'1 165 pounds his sophomore year of highschool, to 6'1 215 pounds in just under 3 years.

That's a tough span of years to use as an evaluator of creatine's effectiveness. Guys tend to fill out during that 17-21 period. Perhaps some of that was due to this effect? What Ajax said strikes me as true; Creatine only provides water bulk during the cycle. After it's over, the bulk goes with it. I can say that from experience. Maybe your friend was on a heavy weight gain / protein diet as well? That could explain it. The only other explanation that I can think of is steroids. I wouldn't want to assume that without knowing your friend a bit better. However, gaining nearly a third of your original body weight in pure muscle mass in less than three years tends to strike me as a little bit suspicious. Then again, maybe he just worked really hard.

[Munkay]

When I was playing junior hockey I was heavy into weightlifting and used Creatine for several cycles.  Eventually I found that it caused two problems.  One, it was making me cramp up really bad, and two, and there's no way to be certain that it was the cause or not (but I think it might have had an effect) it eventually caused my moods to swing erratically.  There are other people out there who believe that they have had similar issues.  That being said, it could certainly be something else that caused the problem; I haven't really looked into whether or not that's a common problem.

What did you do for cycle lengths, and did you load? Did you take it before or after work out? (As odd as this sounds I have found more articles advocating taking it after a workout than articles saying take it before, which frankly seems very illogical) As it was mentioned by Pakman I don't plan on loading, especially due to input from Ajax, Tal, and a few more online articles about the strain on the kidneys. I don't see a reason to put 25 grams a day of creatine in my body for a week straight when I've read numerous articles that say muscles can only absorb ~5g of Creatine max.

The problem with eating at school is that I am putting in another year in the dorms in hopes of becoming an RA for the last two years of my undergrad. This means dininghall food, which in turn means horrible meat selection, and horrible chicken.

Thankfully they have hardboiled eggs, which I enjoy. I also am very partial to eating entire cans of Tunafish, although I've heard the Mecury level in Tuna is on the rise and can cause brain damage in the long run. Any other advice other than Whey Protein, which I have taken before. Although I'm a bit strapped for cash and blowing 20$ a week on suppliments isn't going to work too well.

Much appreciated for the replies so far, Tal, Kandrathe, Ajax, Chaer, and Pakman.

Cheers,

Munk

[Chaerophon]

What did you do for cycle lengths, and did you load? Did you take it before or after work out?

My cycles were six weeks on, two off. I loaded the first time, but not after that thanks to advice received from my trainer. I always took it before working out, in apple juice.

Can't really think of any other advice at this time. I take it that you've got a routine figured out already if you plan on becoming a trainer.

[Guest]

Are you not strong enough?
.
.

Think about why your taking it. Do you want to(1)be stronger so you can do something better or do you want to (2) look different.

If your lack of strength is a problem? If so you need to weigh the problem against the risks.

If you want to look different - is that worth endangering yourself over?

[Munkay]

I'm well aware that many people feel at the end of the day suppliments shouldn't be used, and no suppliments are the only real way to minimize the risk to gain ratio. I'm trying to approach this in a way that I have a wealth of information to draw on for people who have already made a concious decision to use suppliments. . .

Biggest reason for this is my own personal knowledge/use. The second reason is I am planning on becoming a personal trainer.

Hope that answers your questions Ghostiger. If you feel that suppliments shouldn't be used, feel free to post your opinions on that, although that is not the goal of this thread.

Cheers,

Munk

[Occhidiangela]

Is your aim muscle mass or sculpting, or both?

My other question is: is speed of muscle growth your driving aim?

In time, you will gain mass, though I am not convinced the kidney hazard is worth it. I trust you will consult a medical professional before you make your final decision.

When my room mates and I tried to put on weight in college, we used protein powder. And we ate a lot. (but not perhaps intelligently) We also burned a hell of a lot of calories in a day. Part of our problem was in eating three versus 5 or 6, meals a day. Had a bit of trouble gaining "good weight" though when we went for pure intake, lots of milk and carbs and cheese and nuts and meat and everything, we'd put on weight. It just wasn't the weight we were looking for.

We did a lot of workouts with "negative resistance" to improve muscle tear down. I'd say do it the old fashioned way, and build slow, but I am old. :P

What sort of diet regimen are you accompanying your pursuit of increased muscle mass with? How you fuel the muscle while it repairs can have a significant impact on your ability to put on muscle mass efficiently rather than burning whatever you eat.

Been a few years since I wanted to gain weight, so this advice is of minor value.

Of course, one of the bubbas on the powerlifting team went the dynabol root . . . back then, there was a less scrutiny on that topic. (late 70's)

Occhi

[Munkay]

Is your aim muscle mass or sculpting, or both?

A bit of both. Hopefully this will clearify:

My goal is not to be a hulking best. From prior conversations with my doctor (a former personal trainer before he went to med school . . . I got lucky :)) we discussed how much mass I could put on without putting strain on my internal organs. There really isn't a perfect answer for this, but when I said if 170 as a top range is good, he agreed that it shouldn't be a problem.

I've always been a small person, and I dont ever intend to be more than that. As I said to Chaerophon, I'm going for 'well defined fit guy' rather than 'hulking beast.'

Truthfully, my own personal goals are reaching 160, and then switching over into pure strength/endurance training (massive pullups, pushups, etc) so I can partake in sports like Rock Climbing, Gymnastics, Break Dancing, Carrying large objects long distances, just about anything I feel like doing.

I figure I will continue to gain weight, albeit much slower once I reach 160, leaving me hovering between 160-170 as a final weight.

I started this post originally for input about my own Creatine use, but since the start I've already shifted my feelings on it a bit. I plan on finishing the 20 oz's I have left without any 'uploading.' After that I'll (most likely) go back to regular weight training.

I still enjoy the input though, for as I mentioned I do want to do personal training, and the more experiences I can draw upon, and more possibilities I can offer to people intelligently, the better.

When my room mates and I tried to put on weight in college, we used protein powder.  And we ate a lot. (but not perhaps intelligently)  We also burned a hell of a lot of calories in a day.  Part of our problem was in eating three versus 5 or 6, meals a day.  Had a bit of trouble gaining "good weight" though when we went for pure intake, lots of milk and carbs and cheese and nuts and meat and everything, we'd put on weight.  It just wasn't the weight we were looking for.

I've never been able to put on any weight from eating. I suffer from an inability to eat consistently, due to an akward schedule at school. Some days I can down 4 massive meals or more. And then the next only really have time for 2 big ones and just a few snacks intermittently.

We did a lot of workouts with "negative resistance" to improve muscle tear down.  I'd say do it the old fashioned way, and build slow, but I am old.  :P

Negative resistance is a good way to go. Not everything old is bad. Well... Jury may still be out on a certain Rogue though. :P

What sort of diet regimen are you accompanying your pursuit of increased muscle mass with?  How you fuel the muscle while it repairs can have a significant impact on your ability to put on muscle mass efficiently rather than burning whatever you eat.

While at school I take protein suppliments since the meat here is rather bad grade. While at home on breaks I eat large quantities of red meat. There really is nothing better than a hearty meal of meat and potatoes, in my book.

Cheers,

Munk

[Baajikiil]

There really is nothing better than a hearty meal of meat and potatoes, in my book.

How does that Bud Lite (I think) commercial go?

"The only thing better than meat and potatoes is meat and meat."

Mmmmmm... Meat and meat.

EDIT: I spel gud.

[Guest]

Actually that doesnt answer my question.

Really my question was about you though. Its established that creatine is a negative for your kidneys, just how much of a negative no one is sure.

My question was are you doing this to change what you are capable of as a person or for appearance. The signifigance of that question is is for you to decide. My personal veiw is that if you are physically weak its probably worth the risk. If you want to look better for it probably isnt worth the risk.

On a side not you talked about rock climbing gymnatics and endurance - you dont want muscel mass for those activities. You want muscle quality.

-Look at the best rockclimbers. They have great tone and power with surprisingly small mass.

-Paul Hamm said that when he gained strength to improve on the iron rings he found the added mass and bulk actually hurt is preformance on the pommel horse.

- In endurance athletes gennerally have small bulk.

[Munkay]

My question was are you doing this to change what you are capable of as a person or for appearance. The signifigance of that question is is for you to decide. My personal veiw is that if you are physically weak its probably worth the risk. If you want to look better for it probably isnt worth the risk.

At the risk of appearing rude I won't requote what I already said. But I still do not fully understand how your question has not been answered already.

The purpose of this post wasn't about reasons whether I should take a suppliment or not. Although I already answered this in my reply to Occhi, which you refer to, so I'm confident you read.

To reiterate:
The answer for going to the gym is never black and white. People aren't there for pure aesthetics, nor are they there for pure strength. It's always a mix of the two. My reasons for the 10 pounds? As I've mentioned in Occhi's, its a mix of the two.

As far as whose best at what sport, there is a large difference between being 'the best' and 'enjoying.' Genetically my build already makes me not the best to play some sports. I don't have the frame to play linebacker in the NFL, but that doesnt mean I wont still play football on thanksgiving with friends. It is true what you have said, bulk muscle isn't the best for any endurance sport. Anytime you have extra mass it can always cause issues. This has to do with the natural way muscle builds when its used for endurance compared to short bursts, or lifting. I'm certain you know this so I won't bother explaining anymore.

I appreciate the apparent concern for my reasons for using Creatine, but they are not easily explained, and past what I have said already, I'm not in a position where I feel its necissary to speak anymore on them.

Your opinions on Creatine use is noted.

Cheers,

Munk

[bigeyedbug]

I've used creatine fairly regularly over the last year. No loading, only before workouts. It's hard to isolate what it's done for me and what is due to other factors, but my guess is it's resulted in more muscle mass and no nasty side-effects that I've noticed. (Definitely no wild mood swings.)

I'm considering stopping for a few months to see what changes. I think I'd like to have a little less bulk if I can do so without reducing my overall strength and tone.