Linus Torvald?

[Munkay]

After a ridiculous amount of fun involving Internet explorer and beautiful Windows XP, I'm staring down an inevitable OS format.

My brother has always been a large linux advocate, and he talked me into giving it a try.

I know there are a few wayward Linux users out there, or at least a good many who've had experience with it.

So the question is, what do you use? Pro's and Con's of each?

Looking at Debian? But also possibly the newest redhat Fedora?

Comments welcome,

-Munk

[--Pete]

Hi,

My brother has always been a large linux advocate, and he talked me into giving it a try.

Used to be we'd say, "Want to be a UNIX guru? Then sit next to a UNIX guru." Like many things, UNIX (and linux) is best learned by osmosis. If your brother is available to help, get him to do so. And go with what he recommends, because the differences in the flavors is just enough to give a person the fits (and, no, there isn't much difference in running apps, but setting up a system is another whole thing).

If you are going to do it solo, and you have to ask, then I'd say go Red Hat. They've got the easiest installation, and a large, useful, mostly friendly (as long as you make it clear in your question that you've RTFM, many of them will go so far as to e-mail you patches) set of users. If you are really OS naive, you might even want to buy one of Red Hat's distributions to get the hand holding they supply. I just usually download their isos.

Good luck. Remember, a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step -- but the remaining 999.99 miles are a real bitch :)

--Pete

[Moldran]

I am a Debian advocate :)

If you chose Debian, go with testing (at the moment: Sarge). Stable is much too outdated, SID is much too unstable.
Starting with Debian stable is a very common mistake. Do not - I repeat - do *not* install stable/Woody if you want to use it as a desktop system. Debian's naming policy can be confusing for newbies:
With Woody, you will probably run into alot of trouble, simply because it is too old.
Testing (Sarge) on the other hand is at least as stable as the 'stable' versions of most other GNU/Linux distributions, and definately stable enough for a home user.

The big plus of Debian is apt, i.e. the best package management system of all GNU/Linux distributions. Apt is a powerful package management tool that also makes it very very easy to install software for newbies. And the Debian distribution comes with alot of pre-packaged software :)

If you want a very easy installation, I suggest you try Suse Linux, or maybe Knoppix with a HD install. These are incredibly easy to install. I recommend these if you just want to quickly check out UNIX/Linux and do not want to invest time into setting up your system.
If you are willing to invest some time to set up your system, I strongly recommend trying Debian. The Debian community is also very helpful and newbie-friendly, from my experience.

If you are into the ethical aspects of Free Software, another big advantage of Debian is that it aims at only containing Free Software in a strict sense.

[yangman]

I personally am a Gentoo user, but, for a first timer, I'd have to recommend Debian as well.

Although not recommended, it is certainly possible to get an UNIX-like system up and running by yourself, albeit quite difficult. My first serious Linux installation was on an old Pentium 166 machine (which is sitting right next to me at the moment), and I had inteded to do it from the ground up. Although I eventually messed up the kernel, it wasn't as impossible as I was first led to believe. Granted, having an already existing installation helped tremendously, but I learned some very valuable lessons on the way nevertheless.

They key is to try and do as much as possible yourself. There's nothing like hands-on experience for learning new materials.

On the topic of distributions, if you eventually become comfortable and really adventuous with Linux, I would highly recommend giving Gentoo a try. Unlike most other distrubutions, Gentoo is source code based, and the primary method of installing anything is by compiling it yourself. It sounds intimidating, but compilations are automated, and the end result is a very customizable system consisting only of what you need and want. I currently run Gentoo on the above mentioned Pentium system, and the entire installation, including a desktop system, Firefox, and GIMP, is contained under 1.7 gigs. I'm going to be tweaking the portage tree (a database of softwares that can be installed) in the near future, which should reduce my installation size even more.

If you, or anyone else feels like giving Gentoo a try, be forwarned that the process takes a lot of time. My installation took roughtly a week to complete due to installation "bugs", cluelessness, and general stupidity. If I were to do it again, I would say it would take roughly four days, most of which will be spent waiting for various software to compile and install; for modern systems, plan to allocate at least a weekend.

[Zedd]

So the question is, what do you use? Pro's and Con's of each?

Of the two you listed, the biggest difference I see is that Debian is a relative pain to set up compared to Fedora/Red Hat, but once it's installed, Debian has a much nicer software installation system. Personally, I'd say start with Fedora. It gives you a rather nice base system to play with from the start, with a minumum of hassle. My main gripe with Red Hat used to be it's system for installing new packages, but the Fedora releases have seen a large improvement in that area. *thumbs up* from me :)

As for me? Personally, I'm another Gentoo user, but I wouldn't thrust that install on anyone if they didn't know what to expect ;)

[Nantuko_Primus]

Installing the latest Fedora was really easy, but setting up the system so you can dual-boot is a real bitch.
I've had good experiences with Linux, and the only beef I have(had) with it is it sometimes is hard to install a program on Linux if the developers ment it for hard-core linux'ers. I am nowhere near as skillful as my dad is on linux, considering he has worked on in for 30+ years. (since the conception of the project to change 16-bit to 32-bit filestrings) After working on it for ~6 months, I'm relatively confident in my ability to use it. However, unless you have someone who is hardcore about Linux(sounds like your bro), learning the BASH script commands will, I guarantee it, be harder than killing hell ancients with a lvl 1.

Should be easy to use it if you are not going to go do specialty stuff until you have a good grasp of how to use it. I personally haven't tried pretty much any other builds, but Fedora seems pretty easy to use. Yours may even come with GIMP, which is a Photoshop on Open source. Creates great images, too! I can render anything I'd like in it.

Overall, the interfaces may seem pretty hard at first, but you'll get used to it. (maybe even faster if you can absorb some knowledge from a linux geek. My rating: :D :D :D :D out of :D :D :D :D :D

-Nantuko_primus

[nobbie]

After the ridiculous amount of security holes and endless patching of both Windows 2000 and Internet Explorer, I finally decided to buy a Linux distribution and install it as second operating system just for the Internet and Office works. I bought the popular SUSE Linux distribution, made a dual-boot installation (Linux and W2000) and didn't regret it until today :)

SUSE Linux comes with a very user-friendly setup tool (YAST2) which allows you to pick your installation options as easy as if you would install Windows, incl. all actions that are necessary to install a Linux/Windows dual-boot system (if you choose that option). The SUSE package includes a huge selection of the best freeware program for Linux incl., for example, the KDE desktop and KDE programs, Open Office and many more. I've heard that the SUSE distribution is the most user-friendly one if you have little knowledge about Linux and OP's in general.

More infos can be found here: http://www.suse.com/us/index.html

[kandrathe]

and didn't regret it until today

Meaning you do not regret it, or that something happened today to make you regret it?

I assume you like me, use the Windows partition for games and the occasional MS app that you absolutly need (like I use MS Project). Other than than I use Star Office, and Evolution (in place of Outlook).

[Vornzog]

Hey Munkay,

I personally use either Debian or Gentoo, but neither is very good if you are just starting out. My advice -

-I didn't like Redhat, but have not used it in several years. It is supposed to be easier on a beginner now.

-I like Debian about the best of any disto I've tried. Hard place to start, the place to end, in my opinion.

-If you want to try Debian, but are intimidated by the normal installation, get Knoppix. It's Debain based, but has good hardware detection, let's you try it out on CD before you install to the hard drive, is easy to install if you do like it, and comes standard with KDE already set up for you. Many people claim they actually find KDE easier to use than XP desktops. If you have to go it alone, try this first. (Note - I don't use KDE normally. It has too much for me. But I've been told it's quite a nice place to start, and have had no problems with it during my various uses of Knoppix). If you install it to your hard drive, you essentially have a nice Debian installiation already set up for you.

-Use what your brother or other linux savvy friends use. That way, you can ask lots of questions. This may be your best option, especially if your brother already has some installiation disks and is willing to help.

-If you want a challenge, try gentoo or maybe Linux From Scratch (LFS). This will be a very hard place to start, but you will learn a huge amount. Once you get this set up exactly the way you think it should be, you will be a Linux god, which is always nice. Not recommended unless you enjoy banging your head agains brick walls and put pointy things in your eye for fun, but always an option.

-V-

[nobbie]

Meaning you do not regret it, or that something happened today to make you regret it?

I assume you like me, use the Windows partition for games and the occasional MS app that you absolutly need (like I use MS Project).  Other than than I use Star Office, and Evolution (in place of Outlook).

I don't regret it that I installed Linux :)

Yes, I still use Windows for all apps that run only under Windows or are still better under Windows., i.e. my 2D paint and 3D animation programs.

[Yrrek]

When all else fails, LOAF (Linux On A Floppy)! :rolleyes:

[Walkiry]

As I always say in these threads:

http://www.knoppix.org/

Get knoppix, burn it to a CD and see if you like it. No need to touch the HD or anything, plenty of apps to get an idea, lovely little thing.

As for me, I've got RedHat, Debian and Suse all running, but given that I'm usually in the command line in these things I'm not a good one to ask about which one is better ;)

[Munkay]

Thanks!

I'm torrenting the ISO for Knoppix right now. My brother has a tried it before and will help me with it. If I feel comfortable with it (after lots of fiddling, I'm sure) I'll take on the bigger challenge of debian. He's tried a few different types of linux, but debian is the one he stuck the longest with.

Definately heading advice, and going to chose the one I can ask the most questions about. Thanks again

-Munk

Ps. This is going to be me for the next month or two. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: Wish me luck! :P

[Roland]

Quick, simple installation, a breeze to learn and use, and just all-around a great OS. Designed for newbies, but with plenty of options under the hood for the Linux pro.

Check 'em out, and I guarantee you won't be disappointed. Oh, and if you want to do some Windows gaming on Linux, let me know. I have a program or two that will help (WineX). :)

[Walkiry]

If I feel comfortable with it (after lots of fiddling, I'm sure) I'll take on the bigger challenge of debian.

The challenge of Knoppix to Debian is two steps:

1. Run the script included in the CD to install the thing to the hard drive as a stand-alone distribution.

2. "apt-get dist-upgrade"

Let it download and run. Enjoy.

But yes, fiddle with it first as much as you can ;)

[Moldran]

1. Run the script included in the CD to install the thing to the hard drive as a stand-alone distribution.

2. "apt-get dist-upgrade"

What Debian archive does apt use in that case ?

[Walkiry]

1. Run the script included in the CD to install the thing to the hard drive as a stand-alone distribution.

2. "apt-get dist-upgrade"

What Debian archive does apt use in that case ?

The one you tell it to :)

[Moldran]

;)
Then you should change your sources.list to use Testing before doing the dist-upgrade.

[HowGozit]

Roland mentioned a good distribution in Mandrake. Very easy to install, and quite usable in its menu layout.

I also like Knoppix for tinkering, and it is Debian, meaning the package upgrading is pretty straightforward. Another Debian distro that I have liked immensly is Xandros. Easy to install, and very aware of Windows partitions. It mounts all the WIndows drives automagically - and it tries to emulate Windows in things like Network Neeighbourhood - etc.

Mandrake is also good in WIndows coexistance and automatically picks up Windows partitions.. Red Hat and Fedora don't - you have to put them in yourself.

However, I agree with Pete - if you have a guru who will help - then go with whatever s/he likes. There are a lot of nuances that you only pick up over time - much better if you have someone handy who have already gone through the mill and know what to do as a workaround.

HowGozit