European elections...

[eppie]

European election started today in a few countries and will finish I believe with most countries voting on sunday.
The problem is, a lot of people don't seem to be interested really. I popped down to the voting-bureau before going to work to do my duty but apparantly only about 30 % of the people will vote.
So even in these times in which a lot of important things are going on, new countries became part of the EU now, terrorist treath, differences in opinion about the Iraq situation etc., people don't seem to bother.

So why are people so disinterested in th EU?. Because they are scared of "other" europeans, because they think only multinational companies are profeting from the united europe, because they think nothing important is decided at the european parliament?. Or are there other reasons?. How do you feel about european elections. (please, americans respond as well :D )

[Faragon]

Personally, I have no idea who to vote for. I haven't heard little to nothing about which party strives to do what. I'd go vote, if I knew who I wanted to vote for. I think that European politics don't get enough airtime on the news around here to get a feel about what I like and don't like. I'll see if I can pick a worthy party before the 10th (when I'm supposed to vote) but if I can't, I'm not going to vote.


Edit: Wait, it is the 10th now. Better get some info fast then. :huh:

[nobbie]

All Europeans, especially the younger ones, should definitely go voting because Europe is the future :)

[Minionman]

What are Europian elections usually like, auch as with issues and parties and other stuff like that? This is from an american who doesn't pay much attention to US elections either. Or any news areas like BBC that tell about elections?

[Brista]

What are Europian elections usually like, auch as with issues and parties and other stuff like that?  This is from an american who doesn't pay much attention to US elections either.  Or any news areas like BBC that tell about elections?

You go down to the local school where some ghastly volunteers smile at you and hand out forms. You pick a party based on sentiment and prejudice and go home

Next morning you read in the paper that the party you voted for lost

So a bit like American elections really except without the electioneering

[--Pete]

Hi,

I suspect that most people in Europe think of themselves as German, or Italian, or French, and so on. Very few think of themselves as "European" other than as a geographic description. So, they are probably as interested in voting in an "European election" as they would be if one was held for the UN. If the supranational European union becomes an important fact of daily life (e.g. starts to issue drivers licenses, birth certificates, generates a direct tax, and all the other things governments do), I suspect more people will become involved. As long as it is "one step removed", I suspect the average European (as well as everybody else) will not care much.

--Pete

[[wcip]Angel]

There are European elections?

Granted, we're not a part of the European Union here in Norway, but I didn't realise those who were voted on communal "thingies."

I can't speak for the rest of the Europeans here on the board, but I know most Norwegians have a closer tie with the US than "the continent". (We call it this, as we're a peninsula on top of the continent, and not really a part of it, geographically nor politically.)

I partake in local elections even though I am anti-political, just so I won't be a part of that statistic that is the lazy, lay-about generation x. Alright, that's a lie, I *did* in fact vote this year, but I hadn't planned to. My mother sent me out for milk and said "make sure to vote on your way there." I didn't have the energy to argue with her, so I went to the local voting-thing and did my civic duty. (And when I came home, I discovered we already had milk in the fridge. My mother is evil. I know this know.)

edit:

About knowledge on elections and such. I've studied the American election system (the Electoral college thing) and I feel I have a grasp of it, to an extent. I have virtually no idea how the system works here in Norway. I don't even know how the political system works in Norway, let alone other European countries.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

caution: Rant ahead.

If the supranational European union becomes an important fact of daily life (e.g. starts to issue drivers licenses, birth certificates, generates a direct tax, and all the other things governments do), I suspect more people will become involved.

That's the most frustrating point for me. You are right, the EU doesn't seem to have a direct influence on the everyday life of its citizens, so most people ignore it for the most part. But they are so wrong...for example, about 60% of the laws passed here in Germany originally were decided and passed by the EU and had to be passed by our national parliament, and yet our national administration gets to be blamed or praised for them. It's amazing: During the 25 years of existence of the EU parliament, its power compared to the national governments has been strengthened year by year, and yet voter turnout here in Germany dropped from over 63% in the beginning to IIRC 49% during the last EU election. The EU parliament has more power about us than ever, and yet the CDU, our big conservative party which is in the opposition in Germany at the moment, has a huge campign running that we should use the EU election to protest against our current national administration - not saying one word about EU politics, but only about national. WTF?

Of course, when you look at how the national administrations behave in EU politics, how they mainly fight for their national interests and not for the EU as a whole, you can't blame the voter for thinking in national terms only as well. Best example of this is the fight over a constitution for the EU at the moment, which may still fail altogether because of national egoism. And don't even get me started on the topic of agricultural subsidies...

I think the main problem with the lack of interest of our citizents in EU politics is media coverage - there is next to none. New laws are discussed and passed in EU parliament and get barely mentioned in the news. Then, when they arrive at the national level and our governments have to pass them, suddenly they get discussed in the news - only that it's too late to change anything then.

The other problem of course is the negative and pessimistic attitude the voters have about the concept of a European state. While I imagine the beginnings of the US to be a time of enthusiasm, where the people had the feeling of a new beginning and mostly understood it as a chance for themselves (okay, maybe that picture is a bit too romantic...), here the citizens mainly feel threatened and endangered by such a concept. When the EU grew from 15 nations to 25 nations on May, 1st this year, everybody only talked about the potential negative consequences the larger union would have: Harder to govern, dragging down the economy, cheap laborers from Poland stealing "our" jobs etc. Nobody talked about the chances all this would offer. I know all this is a result of European history, but I find this really frustrating.

I really hope we will get a EU constitution in the near future. I wish we will be able to speak with one "EU" voice towards the rest of the world one day. I hope one day, EU laws will be passed without the numerous exceptions for different countries to serve their national egos as it is now. Heck, I wish that the next EU election will at least be held with a unified standard in all our countries, for example that the minimum percentage of votes a political party has to receive to actually be allowed to send their delegates to the EU parliament will be the same in all countries.

So please, to every European who reads this and still has a chance to vote during the next days: Use your rights! Participate in the election! Vote! Contrary to popular belief, you can change something. And if you think none of the choices is a good one, then at least vote for the least of the evils - that's better than not voting at all.

-Kylearan

P.S.: Hi to those who don't know me yet from Realms Beyond. I'm a long-time lurker here in the LL and even have posted here before, but I doubt anybody will remember me - I think my average post count was two per LL incarnation. :P

[eppie]

Well in Holland we had a staggering 40 % of the people who could, did actually vote. Compared to 30 % 4 years ago. So something is going the right way.
I think Pete is right that most people consider themselves not really europeans, but more, French, German, or whatever.
Still with the euro (our currency) probably we will become more and more europeans. Of course a greek and a german are more different then a new yorker and arizonian, but we will benefit from (on some topics) equal laws for everybody in europe.

One thing is still difficult though. I heard a lot of people saying;" I'm not voting because I am against a united europe". I think there is not really a protest-party available, but if I would think about it like that I guess I would vote "blank" anyway, not voting at all can never be right in my opinion (at least if you don't vote you also not "allowed to complain").

to Brista: your description is more or less right, only "my" party went from 1 to 2 seats (of 726 or something)

To minionman: in holland we hear a lot about this elections on television and we read about it in papers etc. It is however not comparable to normal dutch elections. As I said there are something like 730 seats in this european parliament and we vote for the 27 of them. The main focus of the elections are on "european themes" like a general drugs policy, how to treat asylum seekers, environment etc. It is not about income tax (yet) and healthcare etc, those are more national things.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Still with the euro (our currency) probably we will become more and more europeans

While I agree that a shared currency helps, you also have to bear in mind that only 12 of our 25 EU nations actually have the Euro. That fact will create and widen an inner-European gap, both for the economy and the common citizen. I hope that the shared currency will boost the economy as hoped, and that sceptical countries like England will recognize the advantage of that and join us someday. Personally, I was on vacation in France and Ireland the last two years and the shared currency sure gave me the feeling that we somehow belong together. During my stay in Ireland, I visited Northern Ireland for two days, and the need to change currency just for these two days sure gave me the feeling that they were not as closely related to us as Southern Ireland is.

I think there is not really a protest-party available

I seem to remember there is one in England actually, a party whose only goal is for England to leave the EU, and that projections say they will receive a healthy double-digit percentage of the votes. Go figure. :(

-Kylearan

[Haider]

The problem is, that the EU is very bad at PR. Very few realise the importance and the positive aspects of the EU, but every national politican and most citizens simply blame "Brussel" for everything they don't like or gone wrong - thus the high amount of people voting for EU-critique-parties and the low participation in the elections. Also a lot of parties send off second-rate politicians to the EU, a thing which doesn't help to generate interest in the election.

Another factor is, that the EU-parliament still has not the power it should have. Most of the things are still decided by the (unelected) commission or the (only very indirectly elected) Minister councils and meetings of the Prime Ministers/Chancellor/Presidents, and thus it is impossible to convince people that they have any democratic influence onto the EU government. If the heads of state get their act together and give the EU a real democracy (elected Parliament and a Senate, where every country brings in their Senators and a EU-government (commission), which is elected by the parliament) the interest in Europe will increase a lot.

[Haider]

The other problem of course is the negative and pessimistic attitude the voters have about the concept of a European state. While I imagine the beginnings of the US to be a time of enthusiasm, where the people had the feeling of a new beginning and mostly understood it as a chance for themselves (okay, maybe that picture is a bit too romantic...), here the citizens mainly feel threatened and endangered by such a concept. When the EU grew from 15 nations to 25 nations on May, 1st this year, everybody only talked about the potential negative consequences the larger union would have: Harder to govern, dragging down the economy, cheap laborers from Poland stealing "our" jobs etc. Nobody talked about the chances all this would offer. I know all this is a result of European history, but I find this really frustrating.

Well, the main theme for the EU is still nation power (Confederation) against EU power (Union) - not so different from the states rights/Union rights (Confederation/Union)-split in the US, where this led to a Civil War. If we can prevent this, we already have achieved a lot - even if it takes longer than it did in the US (80-90 years until the Union was a reality?). Don't forget, the EU as political thing is still very young - only 10 years old - so we are still in the beginning, and it is a long way to overcome 2000 years of nationalism and war.

[nobbie]

Regarding the European elections, it seems that the Labour Party of Bliar .. err Blair .. is getting a major blow this weekend ;)