Fake corks?

[DeeBye]

I'm not much of a wine drinker, but once in a while I do enjoy a glass or two. I also like to purchase locally, if at all possible (Ontario produces some very quality wine).

I bought a bottle of Sawmill Creek Fume Blanc (don't bother Googling for it -- they don't have a website). I've enjoyed Sawmill Creek wines in the past, so I didn't mind buying the "Fume Blanc". I had never heard of the Fume Blanc, but I was willing to give it a go.

I put the wine in my fridge B)

I had to wait for it to cool <_<

Finally, it was cold enough to drink :rolleyes:

I snagged my corkscrew and had a go. I got the cork out :blink:

This is what the "cork" looked like after extraction:


'Twas no cork. It was basically a rubber tube wrapping some dense foam.

:(

(the wine is still fairly tasty though)
:D

[--Pete]

Hi,

The population is growing. The size of the cork forests is diminishing. More demand for and less supply of cork.

The short term solution? Plastic "corks".

The long term solution? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader, but here's a hint: six billion is about 5.9 billion too many.

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

That was a '70's solution, brought to you by Ernesto and Julio Gallo, as well as Boone's Farm! :D

As to the final solution puzzle:

1. ZPG is still a chimerical policy that had some merit, Logan's Run aside. (Book better than movie.)

2. How does one stop stupid people from breeding/multiplying? Gene splicing? Methinks not.

[--Pete]

Hi,

2. How does one stop stupid people from breeding/multiplying? Gene splicing? Methinks not.

Italy has well under ZPG, India well over. Yet I don't think either group is stupider than the other. It is a question of what is seen as an appropriate family size. And that reflects the attitudes of the culture. It has long been known that those attitudes can be changed by appropriated advertising (propaganda) campaigns.

And, since the "stupid" are more easily manipulated by public opinion (having no private opinion to offset it), a less than ZPG international propaganda campaign might have the side effect of increasing the overall intelligence. Sort of a reversal on the joke: "The intelligence of the Human race is a constant, the population is shrinking." :) :)

--Pete

[ShadowHM]

And, since the "stupid" are more easily manipulated by public opinion (having no private opinion to offset it)

I actually did hear this opinion expressed once by one of those 'spawned at the shallow end of the gene pool' folk:

"I figure, if there are going to be too many people in this world, they might as well be Harrisons." :ph34r:

[eppie]

Hello,

these fake corks are not so bad as you think. Especially for wine that should not be stored for too long it is a good solution. The cork does not let through air form outside. An advantage (to my knowledge) is that is not possible for a wine closed with a plastic cork to get the taste of cork. These bacteria that ruin your wine do not want to sit in plastic.

You see, this plastic "cork" is used the most in the "new wine countries". In europe a lot of producers do not want to use them. I think the only reason for that is tradition; a wine with a real cork looks nicer.

Maybe somebody knows if there are also disadvantages of using these plastic corks. Maybe for strong wines (better Bordeaux, and Barolo etc.) it gives trouble, but as I said I don't know that.

[Walkiry]

The reason to use real cork is not only tradition.

See, one of the great properties of cork is that it expands a bit when it gets wet, and so makes for an excellent seal when the bottle is at a sideways position; ideally the cork would be long enough so that, if you just tilt the bottle instead of putting it sideways, the entire bottom would be in wine but the "water level" would be just under the opening of the bottle. You might have seen that long-term sideways stored wine can be ruined when the cork gets completely wet and the wine is in contact with the outside world.

But aside from that, it does not seal the bottle perfectly. Over time, small amounts of oxygen will get inside, and those micro-oxidations will add to the flavour of the wine. It will age in the bottle, and for different kinds of wine you'll see how different lenghts of aging are recommended. In fact, some wineries will go as far as storing the bottles for some time themselves, one or two years, before selling it.

Finally, one piece of data for the curious, the cork industry is alive and well in Spain. You can get it in square pieces to be used on floors even (treated in a similar way to wood, makes for a softer and warmer surface but it tends to age and deteriorate more quickly).

I urge anyone here that likes wine to try Spanish wine. Look for the grape variety "tempranillo" if you want to try something original ;) </SHAMELESS PLUG>

[Occhidiangela]

I suppose I ended up doing so, inadvertantly. Sloppy me. :blink:

The "stupid people breeding" thing' reflects perhaps the irony that "stupid" folks might not have the mental wherewithal to think through the breeding decision rationally. However, Shadow's post shows a rational, though not necessarily ZPG based, approach.

Then there is the matter of breeding policy, which is indeed a cultuyral matter as you pointed out. Here along the Mexican border you hear now and again abiut the "victory of the cradle." Mormons appear to breed on purpose to make sure there will be more Mormons. I have seen many studies of the ethnic European Negative pop growth running into a problem vis a vis North African population growth: Islam in Paris by 2105, unless Charles martel the Second arrives at Tours.

[Jeunemaitre]

... vis a vis North African population growth: Islam in Paris by 2105, unless Charles martel the Second arrives at Tours.

An associated note: last I heard, the need for teachers in Italy had reached a new low as miniscule birth rates persist, and the average age of the Italian population continues to climb. Aside from Tours, the new hammer might want to send troops to defend the Vatican.

[Occhidiangela]

That would violate about 5 Italian labor laws and a host of EU regulatiuons. :)

[eppie]

The reason to use real cork is not only tradition.

See, one of the great properties of cork is that it expands a bit when it gets wet, and so makes for an excellent seal when the bottle is at a sideways position; ideally the cork would be long enough so that, if you just tilt the bottle instead of putting it sideways, the entire bottom would be in wine but the "water level" would be just under the opening of the bottle. You might have seen that long-term sideways stored wine can be ruined when the cork gets completely wet and the wine is in contact with the outside world.

But aside from that, it does not seal the bottle perfectly. Over time, small amounts of oxygen will get inside, and those micro-oxidations will add to the flavour of the wine. It will age in the bottle, and for different kinds of wine you'll see how different lenghts of aging are recommended. In fact, some wineries will go as far as storing the bottles for some time themselves, one or two years, before selling it.

Finally, one piece of data for the curious, the cork industry is alive and well in Spain. You can get it in square pieces to be used on floors even (treated in a similar way to wood, makes for a softer and warmer surface but it tends to age and deteriorate more quickly).

I urge anyone here that likes wine to try Spanish wine. Look for the grape variety "tempranillo" if you want to try something original ;) </SHAMELESS PLUG>

Okay, I have learned some new things again. (what do all these other post about breeding mean??)
I have a few questions remarks though.

The oxygen thing: -the cork is ussually alco covered by a metal wrap. I would think this will not let through oxygen. Maybe it does, but then my question is do they make cork and wrap so that the amount of oxygen that passes is more or less known?. I also have bottles of "long keeping" wine that hav the cork closed with wax (the stuff to make offcial seals), I guess that does not let oxygen pass. And will the amount of oxygen that will pass the cork be significant with respect to the oxygen that is present in the wine at the moment they bottle it?.

Anyway, thanks for the wine reccomendation.

[Occhidiangela]

B) They were a digression. It happens on the Lounge.

[Baajikiil]

these fake corks are not so bad as you think.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to mention that the fake corks are very common(at least on the east coast of the US). I happen to work for a fairly large liquor distributer, and I can say that a good sized portion of our wine sales have "fake" corks. As mentioned, they are young wines, and usually inexpensive ones.
Some of our highest volume wines use synthetic corks.


Wait till the first person on the lounge tries the "Tin Roof" wine. It is a sauvingnon blanc that actually has a screw top, and no cork at all.

The cap of the bottle is made of metal, hence the Tin Roof monicker. Quite clever if you ask me.

Tin Roof

[Rhydderch Hael]

The only form of vino I'm familiar with is Chateau Trailér, a.k.a. boxed wine. ;)

[Walkiry]

The oxygen thing: -the cork is ussually alco covered by a metal wrap. I would think this will not let through oxygen. Maybe it does, but then my question is do they make cork and wrap so that the amount of oxygen that passes is more or less known?. I also have bottles of "long keeping" wine that hav the cork closed with wax (the stuff to make offcial seals), I guess that does not let oxygen pass. And will the amount of oxygen that will pass the cork be significant with respect to the oxygen that is present in the wine at the moment they bottle it?.

Anyway, thanks for the wine reccomendation.

It's all related, let me explain in more detail.

When the wine is transferred from the barrels to the bottles, due to the movement and exposure to the outside air it gains quite a lot of oxygen as you said, not to talk the bottle is never filled completely. During this stage, the wine is not very drinkable (depends on the kind, young fresh wines don't really change much, but older wines do get worse), this is the so called "bottle sickness". At this point the bottle is corked and left to sit there for some time until all the oxygen has pretty much reacted with the wine and the flavour has settled.

The length of time needed, again, depends on the wine, and that brings me to the cap. If you notice, white wines and young rosé or red wines have a rather crappy cap, usually it's plastic and doesn't seal much. That's because these wines will be consumed in a very short time. Basically, all the oxidation will happen on bottling.

Older, stronger wines have a cap usually made at least partially out of lead, which will seal the bottle very tightly. The intention is that, after the initial "peak of oxydation" so to speak, the chemical reactions of the tanines and micro-oxidations will carry slowly over a few <i>years</i>, that's the big difference.

Even with this cap, wine kept for too long will end up spoiling. That's when the wax seals come to scene. In those cases the bottle is supposed to stay in storage for even longer, which basically means no cork will withstand the pass of time. If you open those wax-sealed wines when you're supposed to (I'm remembering a '78 Viña Salceda I had with my friends in 2001 for my 25th birthday :lol:) the cork is usually completely ruined.

And to end, always let the old wine sit open for a while (1 to 2 hours is recommended), even better if you can pour it into one of these wide bottles (it's called "Decantador" in Spanish, and I'll be damned if I know the term in English). That way some of the less desirable components formed during the time in the bottle will evaporate, improving the taste :)

[Baajikiil]

(it's called "Decantador" in Spanish, and I'll be damned if I know the term in English).

Decanter ;)

EDIT: changed smilie

[eppie]

When the wine is transferred from the barrels to the bottles, due to the movement and exposure to the outside air it gains quite a lot of oxygen as you said, not to talk the bottle is never filled completely. During this stage, the wine is not very drinkable (depends on the kind, young fresh wines don't really change much, but older wines do get worse), this is the so called "bottle sickness". At this point the bottle is corked and left to sit there for some time until all the oxygen has pretty much reacted with the wine and the flavour has settled.

The length of time needed, again, depends on the wine, and that brings me to the cap. If you notice, white wines and young rosé or red wines have a rather crappy cap, usually it's plastic and doesn't seal much. That's because these wines will be consumed in a very short time. Basically, all the oxidation will happen on bottling.


as a chemist I should have known that air will nearly always enter "closed" vessels, especially cork + metal wrap. :P .

I will ask one of my spanish colleagues to bring me some good spanish wine next summer. At the moment I mainly drink Italian. I am open for everything however. Last year I bought some wine in Sonoma Valley in California.....and that was fantastic.

Somebody knows why wine is so expensive in the states? I saw 300 dollar bottles in the supermarket. I know you can get every price-class also in europe, but it seemed that the average price was a lot higher in america. Bottles in a normal supermarket started at 10 dollar.

[Sailboat]

Somewhere between the two topics of this thread lies a solution to one of them. I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about the dilemma of a burgeoning population of six billion...and plastic corks sealing holes...Hrm. It's in there somewhere, I'm sure.

Sailboat

[LavCat]

A couple of days before this thread started I opened a bottle of Bull's Blood and found a plastic cork. I had never noticed one before. Egri Bikaver (Bull's Blood) is an old Hungarian wine that has been one of my favorites for the last thirty years. I was at first surprised, but I remembered corks are a novelty that have only been used in wine making for the last three hundred years or so.

Real corks don't work very well. They only last for about twenty to twenty five years in my experience. I doubt Attila would have bothered, and besides he had a better solution to the population problem.

[Count Duckula]

Somewhere between the two topics of this thread lies a solution to one of them.&nbsp; I can't quite put my finger on it.&nbsp; Something about the dilemma of a burgeoning population of six billion...and plastic corks sealing holes...Hrm.&nbsp; It's in there somewhere, I'm sure.

And will hopefully lay undiscovered. :P

Speaking of wine, a pass-through of Wal-Mart's wine section showed about 30% cork, for all who care. Did you know wine also comes in flip-top tabs and screw-on lids? Or maybe it's because it's Wal-Mart, and I'm 37 days away from entering the nearest VABC.