? re Foe Creation in SP in Cats

[Attika]

Although I am not conversant with the creation and placement of foes as detailed in Jarulf's Guide, I came upon this oddity in Single Player Classic Diablo.

I was clearing Catacombs Seven of its hordes: Night Clan Mace Goats, Stone Clan Mace Goats, Fire Clan Archer Goats, and Familiars. Quite the conflict.

Then on Catacombs Eight I ended up with Night Clan Mace Goats and Familiars again -- but that was it! Just two foe types!

Somewhat strange. I thought the game somehow checked foe "size" and kept adding foe "types" (subtracting from the number 4000, minus Golem size, also) until the level was "filled" as far as types of foes were concerned. Yet Level Seven contained the same foes as Eight _plus two more types!_ while Eight only contained the two? (This all happened in the same game which is why it stood out so.)

Is there something I'm missing in the steps of foe creation here? How is it even _fewer_ types of foes can show up on a deeper level? Or that the game can choose to create fewer foes?

There were no special quests involved on either level.

Just curious.

Attika

[Cytrex]

I'm not sure how single and multi player differ on that. But I'm pretty sure two different monsters per level (especially as small ones) is far too little. I have no idea what could be causing this. When I read the post, I remembered of an experience Big D(I think) reported once. In a multiplayer game he had Soul Burners, Hell Spawn, Snow Witches AND Azure Drakes on level 15. And he confirmed the Hell Spawn weren't from Lazarus' chamber.

I think we need an X-files department here :lol:

[Zenda]

Hello Attika,

This is most unusual indeed. If you add the seeding sizes of the goats and familiars, you do not even reach half of the required number. One explanation could be that the game still adds the monsters from quests that could appear on the level, but that is unlikely. Apart from something like this, there should be no difference between SP and MP. While the game can add monsters 'by hand' and surpass the seeding size limits, I don't think it ever has a reason to place fewer monster types.

Must be something weird as the example Cytrex gave :blink:

[Walkiry]

Well, Stone Clans cannot be created on level 8, the deepest they go is 7.

Talking of things, are you sure Baron Sludge wasn't in that level? The reason I'm asking is that he's invisible (same as The Hidden and Shadowdrinker) so you might have missed it, although I'm not sure if he's mobless, as in he can appear alone in a level without overlords being all over the place. The other possibility is that Zhar the Mad was present too, which amounts for some points.

[Attika]

NIGHT clan on Eight; they appear on 7-9. And Baron Sludge does appear with a mob, so it would be difficult to miss him.

I was playing SP again not ten minutes ago and nearly the same thing happened, with Fire Clan Mace and Familiars (and only those two foes!) appearing on Eight. BUT Zhar the Mad was there too, and checking Jarulf's Guide the "size" of Mage-types is 2000! So this single Counselor accounted for 1/2 the foe types that appeared on the level!

Perhaps in my other game I just forgot to record the appearance of Zhar the Mad, as this one single foe would correct this seeming error.

[Walkiry]

NIGHT clan on Eight;

I was just pointing why you didn't have the stone clan mace goats on 8 while you had them on 7 ;)

[Jarulf]

I was playing SP again not ten minutes ago and nearly the same thing happened, with Fire Clan Mace and Familiars (and only those two foes!) appearing on Eight.  BUT Zhar the Mad was there too, and checking Jarulf's Guide the "size" of Mage-types is 2000!  So this single Counselor accounted for 1/2 the foe types that appeared on the level!

Perhaps in my other game I just forgot to record the appearance of Zhar the Mad, as this one single foe would correct this seeming error.

Phew, for a moment I thought my Guide might actually have an error in it but then I found this:

2. If there are any special quest monsters on a dungeon level (like Snotspill, The Butcher, Lachdanan, Hork Demon and so on) subtract the size of that monster type. That monster type will also appear, if possible, on that dungeon level of course.


Phew :)

Yes I know, there is a whole bunch of errors in it, some fixed in a not yet ready 1.63 and some I should have fixed but forgot what they were. And no, I am not working on finnishing up 1.63, I think it was last summer I last looked at it. But I do want to fix it some day.

[Lady Vashj]

I've had a similar experience in SP in the Caves. Level 9, there were five different types of monsters. Level 10, only two - Red Storms and Storm Riders, which are almost identical except one is red and one is blue. And on level 11, only Storm Riders and Storm Masters, which are just like the other two except a bit tougher, and orange.

[SanKaiShen]

Hi Lady Vashj,

Once I got the same lvl 11 (Red Storm + Storm Lord).
And that is not strange.
From JG : "Each monster type has a size associated with it. That size is used when selecting monsters for a specific level of the dungeon. Maximum total size of all monsters types on a level is 4000."
The Golem size is 386, and each Lightning Demon type take 1740 points.
So the remaining size is : 4000-386-2*1740 = 134.
Not enough for another monster.


SanKaiShen.

[SanKaiShen]

Edit : Sorry, double posting

[Lady Vashj]

Is there a calculator for this that I missed somewhere? If so, where is it?

[Yogi_Baar]

Notorious Triangle