Best tank char?

[whereagles]

Hum.. don't speak too loud or they're gonna nerf the energy shield thing, eheh.

[Occhidiangela]

With 10 in fire mastery gives some 3000+ per second.

Works for me, and I don't have to stand still! :)

[lemekim]

Don't forget Inferno. Inferno is now a superb 60 point skill(Warmth+FM+Inferno, NO PREREQS!)

Slvl 20 Inferno=203-220 damage/s
Slvl 20 Warmth=100%+258% Mana regen/+240% damage to Inferno
Slvl 20 FireMas=+163% damage to Inferno

End result: Inferno Damage=100+240+163=503%

Slvl 20 in all=1021.09 to 1106.6 damage/s

For every +1 fireskills, add about 11-12 points of damage to base inferno damage, and add 19% to the total bonus damage.

Assuming "just" a LEAF runeworded staff(preferrably with +3 FM, I'm still looking for one...),

+6 to all 3 skills

Inferno Base damage=269-292 d/s
Warmth bonus=312% damage bonus
FM=205% damage bonus

Final damage=1659.73 to 1801.64 d/s

Unless warmth and FM actually multiply off each other, in which case, the damage would be even higher. *drools*

Yes, they do multiply each other. And no, lvl 26 warmth will not give you 312% bonus, since all synergy bonuses are capped at 20.

[AtomicKitKat]

With 10 in fire mastery gives some 3000+ per second.

Works for me, and I don't have to stand still!  :)

Argh! Firewall noob! :P Real players use Inferno and stand bravely in the face of danger! :P

Too bad synergies are capped at 20. I still like my Inferno sorc, since I will likely not need to pump energy very much, with maximum warmth. Leaves more stat points for vit! :D

Edit: Forgot to add some things. High level Inferno is overall more flexible than Firewall and Blaze. Both literally and figuratively. Firewall requries stationary targets. Blaze may cause Bishibosh bug to trigger(plus you're running all the time <_< ) Inferno can be effective against stationary targets(keep pumping them full of fire), or moving ones(most enemies will run straight for you, so aiming isn't much of a problem. Those that do run in erratic patterns can be dealt with in the following sentence) For a wider area of effect, SPRAY Inferno in a small arc in front of you. Instant Multishot! :P That's the beauty of a high level Inferno, it can function as a "melee" attack, or a missile attack(currently, level 27 reaches EVERY SINGLE CORNER of the screen in 800*600)

[Occhidiangela]

We were discussing damage per second.

As to the spray method, I do that with my Druid's Arctic Blast, which is fine since he has a Tank in front of him: a Werebear. Mercenary AI is not as reliable as a Werebear, in my experience.

I have found that by moving and using terrain, I can position FireWalls so that the monsters run through them long wise, which is sort of a self Blaze on their part.

I don't disagree that Inferno can be lethal: the trick is to induce the monsters to run at you is straight lines. Teleport just before the first blow falls is, I suppose, a place for good micro skills. :)

[AtomicKitKat]

<===radiation has caused his train of thought to frequently jump around like a Barbarian on LSD

I don't even use teleport. Around 400 mana and slvl 12 warmth(with items/own skill), you can maintain a slvl 27 Inferno for about 1 minute. Short bursts are even cheaper. Just fling it about as a "scout"(unless you use 800*600), and if you hit something, they usually come running along shortly after. :P An alternative I used back in D2C was to use Hydras as "seekers", and then fire in the same direction as they did. Too bad all the immunes in LoD changed that. <_<

I hope you realise that the "noob" remark was in jest. :) I just prefer avoiding the more overused skills altogether(which was a reason I avoided the Ice tree for AGES)

[Occhidiangela]

My first D II loaded PC was sort of low end, and the desynch was pretty bad. Sorceresses were, for me, a shoot and move character.

I still rarely play them, so I make it simple on myself. Plus, in Diabl I, I was a firewall hound.

[AtomicKitKat]

Cos she was my first ever character. :) And while she may have undergone several name changes(currently Hinoarashi, named after the Pokemon character), her basic premise has never wavered: get Inferno maxed out by level 26, and start pumping the mastery at 30. :lol:

[Dagni]

And no, lvl 26 warmth will not give you 312% bonus, since all synergy bonuses are capped at 20.

It's not that it is capped at 20, it's that +skills items never help synergies at all. Leaf's +Warmth doesn't improve Inferno's damage the slightest bit, ever.

For every +1 fireskills, add about 11-12 points of damage to base inferno damage, and add 19% to the total bonus damage. Assuming "just" a LEAF runeworded staff(preferrably with +3 FM, I'm still looking for one...)

Unless staffmod generation has been changed in the patch, it isn't possible to get both +Inferno and +FM on the same staff (before adding Leaf). Also, every +1 to Inferno adds slightly more damage after slvl 22, and even more after slvl 28 (about 12.5-13.5). Therefore the best leaf staff for Inferno damage should be one with another +3 Inferno (for a +9 total bonus), and not one with +FM.

- Dagni

[lemekim]

It's not that it is capped at 20, it's that +skills items never help synergies at all. Leaf's +Warmth doesn't improve Inferno's damage the slightest bit, ever.

Err that's what I meant (doh) But about that whole FM mastery or Inferno decision for the leaf runeword, it all depends on whether he uses other fire skills (thus +FM would be better), or only Inferno (thus +Inferno being better).

[GenericKen]

Inferno unforunately remains inferior to firewall in terms of dps. Anything you could possibly hit with inferno you could hit just as easily with FW, and then some.

The damage increases at high levels do not allow inferno to catch up with firewall.

Inferno damage per seconds remains static since it is a channeling skill, whilst a FW sorc can have 2.5 firewalls up at any given time.

At level 60 w/ 60 mastery and full synergy, inferno manages to do 13k damage/second, which is pathetic when you consider that meteor does 50+k damage per casting just from the initial impact, and that 2.5 level 20 firewalls w/ mastery and no synergies give give like 8.5k damage/second.


Unless they reintroduce that bug where each frame of inferno would take tackon damage from weapons, the skill will remain a useless novelty that is at best subpar at its least useless levels.

[AtomicKitKat]

Therefore the best leaf staff for Inferno damage should be one with another +3 Inferno (for a +9 total bonus), and not one with +FM.

Not possible. I tested it myself in SP. Runewords which give + to skills will simply overwrite existing skills which overlap. So it doesn't matter if the staff has +1/+2/+3 or even +0 to the skills Fire Bolt/Inferno/Warmth to start with. It'll disappear. That's why, my ideal LEAF staff would be a 2 socket +3 to FM(and possibly some other skill/mastery) staff, so that I will wind up with +6 each to Warmth/Inferno/Fire Mastery.

GenericKen: Hey, don't go ragging on the Inferno. Damage per second isn't EVERYTHING. Blaze has artistry going for it(the ability to draw in flames), Firewall has the damage going for it, but for pure fun, Inferno is still my choice. There's just something about holding a lighter's flame against those cockroaches...

[Dagni]

Runewords which give + to skills will simply overwrite existing skills which overlap.

Really? How disappointing. :(

That's not how it used to be. I've personally used a +9 Inferno leaf staff before.

- Dagni

[Brista]

Don't forget Inferno. Inferno is now a superb 60 point skill(Warmth+FM+Inferno, NO PREREQS!)

I've made an Inferno sorc in 1.10 and I would have to say she is very much a tank-dependent character rather than a tank

The damage is about 1700 per second which even in Nightmare with two of us doesn't kill spectacularly fast and if the monsters can start whacking you around it's hard to get the Inferno on

Using Inferno in a hit and run way or spinning or the spot is hopeless, they just regenerate

I'm a bit disappointed to be honest although the Barb I play with loves it. My reason for not enjoying it is because she is so dependent. If he misses a pack and runs ahead as they wake up and flank me I have an awful time coping with them. His reason for liking it is that it is a low lag area of effect damaging skill that scythes through anything clustered round him

Incidentally, I'm using a +9 Inferno Leaf staff, it certainly stacks in 1.10

[AtomicKitKat]

Odd. I actually went to the trouble of making one but it didn't come out with +4 to Inferno. Maybe I did something wrong. Dual socketed +3 Warmth/Inferno/FireMastery staff will be my weapon of choice. :) Assuming such a weapon even exists <_<

[Dagni]

I've made an Inferno sorc in 1.10 and I would have to say she is very much a tank-dependent character rather than a tank

I would try adding Energy Shield to the mix. With high Warmth for the synergy bonus to Inferno, even a few points in ES/TK would be helpful. And if you go all-out on ES/TK and vulpine items, the sorc can become a strong tank, thus becoming self-dependant ;)

Of course, going all-out means you won't have skill points left for against fire-immunes...

- Dagni

[Brista]

I would try adding Energy Shield to the mix.

Well, I do have my trusty Barb ;)

He has a tendency to wander off though, it works fine when we play as a team although I don't really like being quite so dependent

I certainly could factor in Energy Shield, max block too

The problem though is not that I'm in danger of dying it's that it's hard to kill stuff in Nightmare unless you click lock it and they take a while to drop. This is with Inferno 20+10, Warmth 17+7 and Fire mastery 4+4

It is quite effective if the monsters are clustered around the tank but not the best fire spell

It loses a lot of effectiveness if the monsters are able to interrupt it or force you to retreat

I certainly enjoyed trying it out but from here on I think I'll see more Fire Immunes, more Fire Resistant monsters, faster harder-hitting monsters and the extra damage that I can develop won't help enough

I could probably just about scrape through Hell, playing with a Barb. I don't think I could solo, my back up spell (Ice Blast) is not good enough for Fire Immune Ancients and Council which are mandatory

So I've abandoned this project to pursue other ones

[AtomicKitKat]

I've considered maxing out Frost Nova as my "anti-Fire Immune" spell. Another pre-req-less spell. :)

[TabithaWolf]

The zons passives allow her to dodge/avoid magic based attacks quite well now.&nbsp; I've seen mine and my wife's dodging away when lightning bolts and bone spirits and oblivion knight blobls and charged bolts come flying our way.

I thought I was crazy when I noticed the same thing vs. a lightning enchanted super unique while testing. I've never noticed this prior to 1.10 beta, other than dodging diablo's lightning attack.

[kier]

I was thinking last night that the fastest team, two person, would probably be a Necromancer and a Sorceress.

Necromancer has Lower Resists.&nbsp; Bone Walls and Prisons to channel monster into kill zones.

Sorceress use Meteor or Firewall, and either Orb or Static .&nbsp; Or CB

In any case, the LR will reduce imimunities, no one is safe, all monsters get dispatched in groups.

In actual fact it's better with a pala with conviction. Unlike necs pala's can stand still and take a couple of blows before that meteor/fire wall/blizard/ice orb kicks into effect :D .

The nec would more likely cause the sorc to lag (bone walls and curses don't mix).