Zookeeper Necro

[Vash]

I'm thinking of building a Zookeeper Necro as my next character. I want to try having as many skellies, skeleton mages, and revives as possible (I finally have a computer that can handle this...hopefully the people I play with have one too!).

I've heard from a friend that such a build is very viable. Any advice?

[Sporky Smurf]

Well, if you're going with Revives, your other Skeletons are going to be worthless and a waste of your bodies. Personally, I would ditch the Revives and go with an Iron Golem with Skellie Mage support. No P&B, and some major Curse Support.

[Kevin]

Get a thorns merc, or better yet, play all the time with a pally with maxed thorns and you both get prayer mercs. Amp damage and thorns is your best friend. Thorns makes skeletons viable in Hell, having prayer under them makes them even more so (if they surive the single hit, and with maxed skel mastery they will), because they will heal between fights from prayer because the sheer number of them means that the same one will almost never get hit by 2 different monsters in a short amount of time. Of course when you are playing without a permanent pally team mate that doesn't work as well. Since the throns merc isn't around until Act II NM, you will need at least a point in iron maiden. IM is pointless once you can get thorns though. Of course without prayer you will need to bring up skellies a lot.

Minions can't walk through each other, so they get stuck a lot. Skellies will teleport to you fairly frequently, revives will not. Trying to keep up more than 20 revives at time is hard (you pretty much have to revive everything). Getting +10 to summon skills isn't that hard (I did it without trading), so 5-10 points in revive is enough, I think. Skellies don't time out, and like I said will sometime teleport back to you (or in front of you, etc) if they get seperated. Mages, even in hordes don't really hurt anything after Act III normal, even with lower resist, they are just more walking shields that have fewer HP than a regular skellie.

You will need a direct fire spell (bone spirit is my choice so you can hide and fire) for several monsters and the act bosses (since your army won't last long against them). Corpse Explosion is good for any necro build (and you need it to get your direct fire spell). Lower Resists will be needed to help this out as well (of course depeding on the patch LR may or may not help with magic damage, currently it does). Amp damage is more effective with CE then lower resist, unless the moster is PI and you are using CE for the fire damage it does.

Just somethoughts. I have played 2 zookeepers, one in classic (so lots of IM) and one with my wife who played the thorns pally. The necro-pally team didn't have problems with anything really and even in Hell with the global resists it didn't matter, when thorns returns over 1000% damage and you are amp damaging and taking evertying to negative physical resists, it stills dies quickly.

[Vash]

Thanks for the ideas Gnoll...but I forgot to mention that I was hoping to use the minions for direct damage. Would a Zookeeper be viable if I didn't use IM/thorns? Would a fire golem help with this build? Can I depend on Fire Golem's Holy Fire to turn enemies' attention to the the golem while skellies and skelly mages attack?

Why Iron Golem instead of Fire Golem, Spooky?

[CelticHound]

I have one in Hardcore on USEast. He's only level 35 in Act V Normal - but has been fun so far.

I looked at the Overlord guide by Poisontrooper on DII.net. He, too, says the build is viable.

Though he advises a Prayer merc, I'm going to go with Thorns. I'd found a discussion of the merits of the merc types over in the AB forums.

It may not be optimal, but I'm perverse. I'm looking forward to eventually having wayyyy too many skeletons.

I intend to have one point in revive and in each golem and use them situationally. Everyone says that since revives time out, it's some effort to keep a number of them going. From what I've seen so far, I think everyone is right.

If I ever get to a place where I have spare points (ha!), I'll work on one of the other trees as a hobby. Maybe I can be a Pure Curse Necro just like Elric - only surrounded by sixty skeletons. ;)

-- CH

(This all started because I cubed a Golemlord's amulet.)

(With my luck, Bliz will nerf Paladins, Assassins and Necros in 1.10.)

[LavCat]

I have a level 90 zookeeper, and the build is certainly viable. He only died once on hell difficulty (so far), and that was when he was about level 58 attacking an LEB in the monastery, with no minions left and negative lightning resist.

The only things that were really difficult were specters for some reason.

Two things that help: he has items that add +15 to the summoning skill tree, and he has enough mana to cast high level bone spirits continuously, even with fast cast.

I can recommend a thorns mercenary and a fire golem. I would not recommend an iron golem, because I believe the thorns do not add together. Someone please correct me on that if I am wrong. Also, he has about twenty skill points in reserve for when the patch comes out.

None of the minions do a whole lot of damage, except the hireling. The mages will eventually kill things if you are very patient. However it is very difficult for most monsters to get to you through forty something cold bodies (I almost wrote "warm bodies" but that is not the case). A high level skeleton will take more than a couple hits, and the mages last quite well. When my necromancer defeated baal for the hell quest, there were two mages and one revived death lord with him at the end.


(edit: I can't spell.)

[Vash]

You all mentioned using a Thorns merc...but I want to build a necro that relies on the direct damage done by the skellies. Anyone know if that's viable?

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't know about the damage from skele mages, but regular skeletons do about 40 damage each with 20 in mastery. 40*20=800 damage(not possible to be surrounded by that many of course, but still...) Anyway, assuming each monster gets hit by at most 5 skeles at a time, that's about 200 damage per second(about 1 chop per second?), cut to 100 in Hell difficulty(50% Global PR) Unless the skill gets ramped up for Hell(does it?) Mages probably do anywhere from 80-120% of that amount(again, I don't have the exact figures here) Unless you're facing an LEB, your skeles will probably survive.

[LavCat]

In my experience the little fellows do not do much damage (at least in hell), probably because their AR is low. It might be fun to try skeletons with a blessed aim mercenary and life tap! One could test this with the help of a friendly paladin.

Also I would not worry too much about the 50% global PR, as that is what AD is for.

[Vash]

Yeah, I was definitely thinking about Blessed Aim or Might merc. Lifetap sounds like an interesting idea!

Anyone know if Skellies (or just minions in general) have a "level"? How is their chance to hit calculated?

[LavCat]

It says on arreat that the skeletons are spawned at the necromancer's level. I have seen chance to hit formulas for minions posted, but unfortunately I do not remember where.

And now I need to go to sleep, whether I can spell or not.

[bishiboss]

Skelies dmg looks ... affordable at maximum mastery lvls, but the real problem as mentioned is the pityfull AR of them. At higher dificulty lvls they cant, not only kill a simple monster for -instance a fallen- but even land a succesfull hit, even if 5-10 of them have surrounded it. And i dont think that Blessed Aim can really help, due to the very low base AR that skellies have.
Therefore their only real purpose is to act as meatshields -and not really good either!-.
I have played a skelleton master variant in classic (only skeleton warriors/mages max mastery, no revives, no golems except 1pt in clay golem) inspired by the Sirians Skeletor article. Sirians Skeletor page
Althought it was a blast to play, needing alot of strategy and micromanagement i realized from the hard way how fragile and weak offensively was even in huge numbers. (we are talking about 50 skelies and mages in a full army) The real accomplisment here was to try keep alive a decent number of them all the time and minimize the losses.
I just wish skellies was half effective as dire wolfs are.
I hope that the next patch will give skelies and mages the durabillity and more offencive power at least at high lvs and why not bring their maximum number at 5-10, similar to the druid summon tree.

Sorry for my english.

[Vash]

Hmm I see, Bish. I hope for the same changes in 1.10. But in the meantime, I think I'll give the build a shot anyway. Never tried it before. Can't wait to command (read: be followed by) an army of 70 skellies...

[bishiboss]

I wish you luck and i almost guarantee that you will have a lot of fun!
Besides who doesnt like to summon things curse around and wear an armour constructed by bones and skulls? ;)
Necromancer class IMHO is the most creative/unique/different concept that Blizzard has implimented in this game. (allthough its not flawless of course)

[Vash]

I think I'll give the Prayer Merc/Lower Resist/Skellies as meatshield/Mages as attackers build a try. If that doesn't work out, I still have two other configurations to try out! Thanks for everyone's help!

[whereagles]

Hey, I played a few necs, on b.net and single player.

On b.net I only played pvp necs. In D2C all I did was 1 pt blood golem, 20 iron maiden and 1pt corpse explosion - this and a few +skills was enough to level on 8 ppl games. The rest of the points was for bone spirit and decrep/lower resists for pvp. It was fun to iron maiden and watch all those lance babas commiting suicide when hitting a trapped soul LOLOL :) In D2X iron maiden got nerfed but I partied so, that was no problem - I spammed amp dam and lower resists for amas and sorcies.

On single player I like nec so much I already played a bunch of them (D2X).

1. Meleemancer. This guy is fun but his blessed aim merc takes most of the kills, so maybe I trade him for a rogue merc which casts inner sight.

2. Magemancer. With prayer merc to keep stuff alive. 1pt revive and clay golem to act as tanks while I spam lower resists. Slow going, but fun.

3. Zookeeper like yours. Maxed bone spirit for bosses and stuff like Baal/Ancients/Diablo. Might merc + amp dam and 15 revives kill pretty quick, even in players 8 mode. Trouble is some areas don't have good melee monsters, which makes progress there slooooow. Another hassle are phys immunes, like in the bloody foothills. On the other side, 10 frenzied minotaurs wipe the floor with the Ancients in like 1 minute lol. I like to revive stuff with high damage and good mobility, like storm casters, spectres, flesh beasts, urdars, doom knights, melee flayers, dark raiders, minotaurs (these guys ROCK). Ranged attackers are bad revives, so use these for skellies. This nec can clear hell/8 no problem and in much less time than, say, a druid or pala or asn.

4. Zookeeper with thorns merc. This one is under construction. Thorns has the advantage that you don't need a particular revive - they are all good for that, but can take more time to kill stuff, especially ranged attackers, who don't go melee on your army.

[Conner Macleod]

AHHHHH, Zookeeper, my Favorite build. I can't believe I missed this post for so long. Thought I would offer my build and thoughts.

Ok, ditch the skele support there. One point in each just to get to revives. Depending on your items you should get +13-16 more points from the gear. Trangs Armor with a +2 ammy/2 sojs/+2 Wand with +3 to Summoning/+1 Summoning GCs will be your new friends.

My current 91 Zookeeper is annoying to those with poor bandwidth and comps, but I love him and stay away from the groups. Here's where he stands just for criticism:

Trangs Set/2 sojs/+2 Necro Ammy/Blackhand Key (for Curses)/5 Summoning Charms/2 Curse Charms
Merc is Might, considering a rebuild to Thorns given the way he's turned out
Iron Golem user (always)

Following are Maxed: CE (3 from max), GM, IG, Skele Mastery
1 pt in: Summon Res, Amp, Bone Shield, and Bone Wall (emergency use only)
I put 3 into Poison Nova (2 were by accident, clicked it twice after Izzy Hell ::groan::) - this is a must spell at times to see enemies in large groups. Also some ITP/Stone skin support.
10 into Revives (Total is 26 with this guy and gear, and 26 is MORE than enough to confuse everyone)

I used Mages to help make the first few kills, now they are more meat shields than anything since the merc and golem kill fast now. When leveling in private hell cow games, they actually can drop a cow or two when in a small army.

I chose Might so my merc would be powerful enough to waste a monster within a hit or two and support the Necro up to level 90. I picked up a busted 1 socketed socketed Cruel War Pike of Amp Damage and Shael'd it. Kind of a dumb weapon for a Necro's Merc but it was cheap. My build is good for mowing down groups quick and easy. With around 200% from Might with 100% from Amp, they are a moving feast of choppers. They are good for killing magic using/LEB bosses since they don't rely on being hit to kill (Thorns aura).

Oh, a TIP OF THE YEAR for running away from a group of revives. When you get far enough ahead of slow moving revives, to prevent them from just disappearing on you, cast a TP, go to town, come back. Keeps the army moving.

Have fun! Necros are by far the most fun character to play with since you very seldom will see one.

[CelticHound]

Well, another option is a Prayer merc. Then you'd rely on your mages to do most of the damage dealing, with Prayer to keep everyone alive. (So all four elements plus you merc for physical. If you take some bone skills you could have all 6 damage types in the game.)

BTW, bishiboss mentioned Sirian's Skeletor writeup - it's a great read. I liked the part about not taking revive because it would make him way too powerful for the game to be any challenge.

My semi-Overlord is 52 and just got the Flayer WP in NM. Working on maxing Mages now - have 27 after adders. Don't know if I'll want to max skeletons, maybe once I get to Hell. I have one point in revive - I'll revive monsters just because I can, and don't care if they can't keep up. If I don't max skeletons, I can work on the curse tree.

-- CH

(I expect 1.10 will nerf Necros & Paladins, and beef up Sorcs & Bowazons.)

[Occhidiangela]

I see that you have every confidence in Blizz to get it right, eh? :)

[Conner Macleod]

I see that you have every confidence in Blizz to get it right, eh? :)

Bahahaha. Make Sorcs and Zons even more plentiful, I mean powerful than they are? Necros by far are the fastest killers, most welcome in melee parties, and best all around.

The ZooKeeper, when played with some restraint to the number of revives, is NOT a bad party member. When the ladder comes out, the anti-necrites will be begging for Necros to cast Amp Damage on everything. No way they can nerf the Necro any more than they have. He's like the 3rd bowl of pourage - Just Right. Except I can see them improving on the Poison Damage a bit.