Another Movie Thread - Because We Love Them So

[DeeBye]

Saw another movie that had been sitting on my que for 2 years. It's called Doomsday, and it was amazingly good!

I LOVED Doomsday.

[kandrathe]

I understand. However, I suspect that most people have to go through the T-ball stage before they are ready for the World Series. In thinking, as in baseball, I think one needs to learn how to play before one is expected to play well. Although coaching is useful in both T-ball and thinking, practice is, IMO, even more useful. Directed practice when possible, but any practice is better than none.

I have a DVD player for long trips too (Grandma is 13 hours one way, and my sister is 18 hours). But, perhaps I'm more devious than DeeBye... :-)

I save a couple video's that they love to watch (~ 3 hours worth of the trip) for those times when they've exhausted all other options. I give them hours of DVD's in the car library though like Math made easy, National Geographic, Science shows, etc. Anything that is educational first, and entertaining second. We also have a car kit with coloring books, puzzle books, Sodoku, and magnetic board games (chess, checkers, backgammon, cribbage, etc.). They also bring their own toys to play with in the car.

Lately, for shorter 1hr trips around town they've been playing games on our phones, however they find that they can only play for about 20 minutes before they get car sick and have to look out the windows.

[kandrathe]

I watched "Midnight Chronicles" with my wife over the weekend. It had a promisingly rich RPG based story if not cliche, that unfortunately ended up going nowhere. So, after 2 hours of wallowing through just who was good and who was bad ( they're consorting with Orcs and wearing black btw), it up and ended without much resolution. My wife asked, "Is there a part 2?" It seemed that they ran out of time/money and just wrapped it up. The acting was sometimes ok, and often terrible depending on the actor. It was written, directed, and produced by Christian T. Petersen. I'd say in general, "epic fail".

In contrast, I saw recently, "Arn – The Knight Templar" and enjoyed it very much. While also a limited budget "Fantasy" type film, the story, directing, and production kept itself tight and on task.

[--Pete]

Hi,

But, perhaps I'm more devious than DeeBye... :-)

Perhaps. But I fear I've not made my point.

It is not the type of material that I'm concerned with. And it really isn't just a question of keeping kids entertained or quiet on trips. It is the more general tendency to remove all free and independent activities from children's lives that worries me.

While the TV, DVD, iPod, portable game device, etc., etc. are great for distracting (and possibly educating, but more on that below), they all share the common trait of focusing the mind on the subject coming in. The torrent of noise coming in drowns out that little voice that questions, that wonders, that fantasizes, that creates. Einstein tells us that he conceived special relativity as a young teen by imagining what an electromagnetic wave would look like to someone traveling at the speed of light. Had he spent every waking moment watching Universe and playing video games, would he have ever conceived of that image?

And it isn't just in mental pastimes that this phenomenon occurs. Sure, we played stick ball in NY, and football, etc., in Wilkes-Barre. But we also made up games, or modified the 'rules' (really, more like guidelines) of old games (army) to suit ourselves. We played some under the auspices of adults who called balls and strikes, but we also played a lot under no supervision at all.

And nobody back then took classes on how to build car models, or flying model airplanes, or playing an instrument (well, a few took piano lessons, but most just picked things out for themselves, at least at first), or sewing, knitting, etc. At most, sometimes, an adult would demonstrate, but the emphasis (not always intentionally) was more on learning than on teaching.

The tendency seems to have become for everything to be scheduled, planned, organized, etc. A great way to turn out nice, docile, well behaved robots -- but not too good for turning out the irascible, questioning, innovative people that demand and cause change.

Perhaps that is why my generation actually protested an unnecessary war and the modern generation is perfectly happy to ignore two which are equally as bad.

Even puppies need some free play, or they grow to be neurotic dogs.

--Pete

[Taem]

Perhaps that is why my generation actually protested an unnecessary war and the modern generation is perfectly happy to ignore two which are equally as bad.

Ah yes, I'm sure this is why recreational drug use is "illegal" in the US then, right? I mean, it is your generation that helped make it illegal, and continues to keep it illegal now. [sarcasm] I know the War on Drugs is so successful and all... [/sarcasm] Oh wait, maybe you were talking about Nam .

Every generation has its strengths and weaknesses. This current generation is definitely plugged in. Its very odd to drive down the street in Summer and not see a single kid playing. The media has done a fantastic job of brain-washing kids into thinking video-games are god. On top of that, your correct, Pete, that kids are constantly structured into activities. THAT has been pissing me off to no end the past two years with my kids! I want to take them hiking or to the beach, but Karate, Swimming, and Football get in the way. Everything is structured, even time with my wife because we are both so busy!

Back to daydreaming, I actually yelled at my kids this very weekend because they wouldn't stop complaining that there was nothing to do over grandmas (because they couldn't play their video games on their computers, Xbox, or watch Netflix). At one point, I became furious and told them they needed to learn how to play together and have fun, that they were loosing touch with reality if they thought being in a house without a computer or internet access was the end of the world! I tried to avoid the cliche of telling them, "when I was a kid, we used to...," but it's hard not to mention that when it is a reality. This generation has an electronics addiction, there is no doubt. They have a hard time functioning without them. We still say, "go get your brother for dinner", but I can see in a few years from now, it will all be wireless text messages throughout the home. I'm trying to steer my kids away from that myself. And yes, some of the best ideas I ever had where when I "had" to be creative. Those long car trips helped too . Kids in this day and age really don't comprehend what that means [to be creative]. But short of throwing the computers, gaming consoles, and phones in the trash, how do you resolve this?

One final note; that last paragraph was going to be my last, but I have to add this. Perhaps the issue is nowadays, people are just too damn busy! Like I said, I have to structure time with my wife for crying out loud. It's no longer a, "hey honey, what would you like to do today?" Those days are DEAD! And I'm sure most American families are in the same boat. So the real question is, what has happened to America within the last 20-40 years that so changed to family dynamic that both parents had to work just to afford rent and utilities, that because both parents were working, it was safer for parents to leave kids at home playing computer games than unsupervised all day? How did it come to this, and how could it, or will it ever change?

[kandrathe]

Perhaps. But I fear I've not made my point.

Imagine a world where children;

• Don't gather together to play in neighborhoods anymore. They schedule "play dates".
• Don't walk to school or even ride the bus to school. They get shuttled to and from school by parents on their way to work.
• Don't "play" sports anymore. They are a serious ticket to a scholarship, and the big leagues starting at age 5.
• Don't get discipline at school. They sign contracts where they promise to follow class rules, not bully each other, and do their school work.
• Don't get to play after school. Since Mom or Dad gets them from after-school care at 6pm, they eat dinner, and then spend 2 hours on homework, music practice, or sports practice before bed.
• Don't want to go outside anymore. Evidently nature is bad for children, from allergies, to bees, and sun burns. The kids pick up on parental angst, stay inside, and experience nature the way God intended, on the nature channel. 9 of 10 children don't play outside anymore.

Just to name a few of the bazillion things wrong with our society... We are raising a generation of kids whose social skills are developed in a classroom, texting, or through social media.

But... critical thinking? How? Everything they are taught is predigested pablum up to the college graduate level.

"Concerns over safety are understandable but if children can't get out and explore the natural world, we run the risk of raising a generation of cotton-wool kids, whose experiences are defined by websites and computer games." -- Naturalist Stephen Moss, author of the family outdoor guide The Bumper Book Of Nature. By the time I was 12, I had been to the emergency room three times from my horse alone.

[DeeBye]

But I fear I've not made my point.

It is not the type of material that I'm concerned with. And it really isn't just a question of keeping kids entertained or quiet on trips. It is the more general tendency to remove all free and independent activities from children's lives that worries me.

I'm going to try and enforce a "more lego less TV" rule in my house. I assume you are a big proponent of lego?

[Taem]

We are raising a generation of kids whose social skills are developed in a classroom, texting, or through social media.

But... critical thinking? How? Everything they are taught is predigested pablum up to the college graduate level.

"Concerns over safety are understandable but if children can't get out and explore the natural world, we run the risk of raising a generation of cotton-wool kids, whose experiences are defined by websites and computer games." -- Naturalist Stephen Moss, author of the family outdoor guide The Bumper Book Of Nature. By the time I was 12, I had been to the emergency room three times from my horse alone.

You pretty much just said what I said, however you left out the most important facet of this arrangement: Kids play video games rather than going outside <-- because [both] parents work more, AND parents prefer kids to stay safe at home rather than unsupervised outside <-- because economically, costs of everything has gone up to unsustainable levels for modern day comfort [the median level], rather because of ALL we have (cell phones, cable TV, ...cars), or because of greed raising the price of everything around us (or both) <-- because why? This is the root of the problem. How can you "fix" our society?

Taking away video games and TV won't fix it. It's been touched on in many, many threads by yourself and Pete numerous times... Can you guess what it is? Parents need to spend more time with their kids, time away from the TV, away from the video game systems, away from the cell phones. And kids will learn from this and start doing things outside and thinking for themselves, because (believe it or not) children imitate their parents, even more than they imitate their favorite sports stars from brain-washing commercials.

[THIS] whole post also touches bases on team sports; the more parents did things with their children (if they had time to), the less need for structured sports. Now don't get me wrong, a little structured sport once a season is good for the competition, but most parents, and I'm guilty myself, have their kids enrolled in multiple events during a season to keep them busy; and it's become the norm! If you don't enroll your kids in events, all their friends are doing them so there is nobody for your kids to hang out with. It's our society. Parent's, set a good example!

[kandrathe]

How can you "fix" our society?

I don't know. I suspect it has something to do with bankers.

Parent's, set a good example!

Yeah, but it just takes one idiot to spoil the whole neighborhood. Hence, I have $1M liability insurance policy just in case someone happens to wander onto my property and get hurt. And... I'm guilty of being protective too. I really don't know my neighbor's, or many of the parents of my son's friends well enough to be comfortable with my kids playing out of my sight.

On the topic of sports... Well, around here the kids begin training for hockey, soccer, baseball, and basketball at age 5 or under. By the 4th grade, if you aren't a superb athlete you will be a bench warmer, and by middle school you won't make even the C squad. The teams practice here 3 times a week, with at least one game a week. In our family, we are aiming for some individual "team" sports, like swimming, diving, cross country, track, wrestling, etc. I see so many of the struggles with friendships that I had now reflected in my kids experience. I was "a late bloomer", and its a genetic trait in my mom's family. The men in that side of the family age much slower, resulting in awkward children who often live past 100 years. This is why I ended up training/showing horses, and doing some rodeo. My wife, who has eye problems, didn't fit into the "sports" where hand eye coordination was important. She often says that playing Frisbee in her family is a deadly sport. She was a figure skater, and is now an ice dancer.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm going to try and enforce a "more lego less TV" rule in my house. I assume you are a big proponent of lego?

Only if you throw away the book of suggestions and just give the kids the Legos. Then sit back and enjoy all the relative "wrong" things they do with them.

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

... because [both] parents work more, ...

Maybe. But both my parents worked, and a fair number of the people I grew up with had two working parents.

... parents prefer kids to stay safe at home rather than unsupervised outside ...

We have, indeed, become a nation of cowards.

Parents need to spend more time with their kids, ...

I don't agree. I think entirely too many kids are spending too much time with their parents. As in being driven everywhere by one or more parent, and being under some parent's supervision while their own parents are standing by watching. Yes, they need time away from TV and video games (we all do -- if we'd all spend at least half our free time at a gym, pool, on a bike, running, or doing something physical, we'd all be much healthier). But replacing one structured activity with another is not my idea of how to develop independent thinking.

Yeah, doing things together with a parent is good when it is really appropriate. Be that helping in the kitchen (and learning a bit about how to cook) or going hunting or fishing or camping or going to a ball game. But just 'hanging' with the old folks? No so good. remember that the parents need always to be parents first and foremost -- friends is a long way second and, really, optional.

Free time, as unsupervised as possible -- way beyond the modern comfort zone -- is what I'm speaking of. Yeah, there are some dangers. That's how we learn to handle danger. There will be injuries -- kandrathe got his from horses, I got mine from knives. That's how we learn that it's OK to get hurt, and how to cope with it when we do. The rough and tumble of unsupervised play develops a flexibility in us that will let us survive. As opposed to the fragile rigidity we are developing now,where nothing bad ever happens and the slightest disappointment or failure or injury is devastating.

My generation had nowhere the angst that kids seem to have today because we learned to shrug things off, to live with them. Literally.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

I'm going to try and enforce a "more lego less TV" rule in my house. I assume you are a big proponent of lego?

Only if you throw away the book of suggestions and just give the kids the Legos. Then sit back and enjoy all the relative "wrong" things they do with them.

Interestingly enough...

My eldest son's brain isn't wired that way. If you give him a box of generic Lego's he muddles around for awhile, and eventually builds something interesting. But, if you give him a complex design, and the same box of Lego's he'll snap it together faster than most people can think. He has an amazing capacity for pattern matching, and visual spacial analysis. But, he would totally flounder if you asked him to plan, or put together a list of things he needs to get done in the next week. It also results in conflict with his younger brother who *only* likes to work outside the box, where the elder one reworks the younger ones designs to "fix" them.

As a toddler we noticed that he didn't engage in creative play, and that if we showed him how to play with a toy then he would play with it only in the ways we showed him. According to the brain testing we had done on him this spring, he has an incredible potential to be very creative, however this deficiency/delay in cerebellar development is preventing him from planning his creativity. We are working to help improve that issue through physical therapy through (of all things) riding horses, and the Belgau balance board (DORE Method).

[Taem]

Free time, as unsupervised as possible -- way beyond the modern comfort zone -- is what I'm speaking of. Yeah, there are some dangers. That's how we learn to handle danger. There will be injuries -- kandrathe got his from horses, I got mine from knives. That's how we learn that it's OK to get hurt, and how to cope with it when we do. The rough and tumble of unsupervised play develops a flexibility in us that will let us survive. As opposed to the fragile rigidity we are developing now,where nothing bad ever happens and the slightest disappointment or failure or injury is devastating.

I understand now.

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I've read over this post and it is OT. I basically come full circle to agree with the premise of your deduction, but disagree with its application. Read it if you like, dismiss it otherwise.
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I don't really know what to say. I grew up this way Pete. Both my parents worked constantly, and when they were home, they argued like maniacs. I can't even remember how many times I cried myself to sleep in the grade-school before they got divorced. I never had any brothers or sisters to fall back on, so consequently, I never felt so alone as I did as a child. My parents never went to school functions, never showed up for events in my life, and never showed one iota of interest in my life other than the weekly, "I love you son." Yeah, I had to be creative to entertain myself, but life wasn't worth a grain of salt back then. I welcomed death Pete, and at eight years old... eight years old!, I tried to kill myself by jumping on a knife where I thought my heart was. I failed after several attempts and finally resolved to the conclusion, "who the hell cares what happens in this life. Death couldn't be any worse that this!" It was at this point in my life I stopped fearing my parents, authority, everyone. I did whatever the hell I wanted and with reckless abandon. You have no idea how lucky I am to be alive with the shit I've done.

As a kid, when I went to my grandmothers, my uncles would tell me they were taking me to the beach, to the zoo, to Disneyland, and get me all excited, "You gotta show me you really want to go, now are you excited?", then they'd drive me around the block and kick me out of the car and drive off laughing. They'd have me put fliers on cars for their soon-to-be failed businesses and promise me 50-bucks, only to renege on their promise.

Coming from this background, I obviously became very cynical and did whatever the f* I wanted - hell, it took me years after buying my home to feel like it was really mine and wasn't going to be taken away from me! I was raised by TV, by my friends. I went to the hospital *at least* once a year - and I'm not kidding - for stitches from the games we made up with old golf clubs, nails, custom made ramps out of plywood and 2x4's (not nailed together of course). I also did some really bad things as a youth, stuff you would never even tell your kids (or anyone else for that matter for legal reasons).

I don't want my kids growing up like this! I didn't have a family! This is not what growing up is all about and I don't want that for my children. I'm lucky I never became sociopathic. Being an only child, I used to observe people, and I learned a lot about people by examining them and their interactions. I knew my family life was not the norm, and later in life, this helped me realize how I wanted to change this and how I wanted my kids to experience the family dynamic. I've decided that my kids don't have to go what I went through to understand some of the lessons I've learned. They don't have to feel completely isolated and alone to get their creative juices flowing. I believe that by [me] being creative with them, that they will become creative themselves, but with supervision. I value their input, and give them the room they need to grow, and they give me respect. Unfortunately, much of this has gone out the window the last couple of years since my kids have been in organized sports. I've been spending more time on the computer between sporting events, helping kids with homework, and making dinner than communicating with my kids now

So do I think kids need unsupervised play to become creative? Well, I enjoyed it as my only outlet of enjoyment, but it doesn't have to be this way. I think parents can encourage creativity and still be a part of their childs lives. But you are right about one thing... I am my own man, and I know who I am and I'm not afraid to tell anyone my thoughts or fight [to the death] for what I believe in, and I would not be who I am today if it weren't for my past. And you are also right that because I show my kids so much affection and attention, they are soft and will never be like I was or am, maybe even never be that aggressive period. But this brings me full circle: I don't really know what to say. You are right for kids learning about independence and how far to bend the rules... but I don't want my kids having to grow up like I did to become like I am.

[--Pete]

Hi,

My parents weren't much different. The main difference is that I went after them and not myself with the knife.

They did put me in good schools for which I've always been grateful. They never interacted with anyone there (I convinced them there were no report cards in high school -- I could sign my step-father's name better than he could himself).

I don't think the extreme you and I experienced is the best. But neither do I think the opposite extreme I see now is much better.

--Pete

[DeeBye]

We have, indeed, become a nation of cowards.

It's really easy to become a "coward parent", when the media plasters all of the dangers kids can possibly face in today's world. Not a day goes by that you don't hear of a child being abducted, or accidentally drowned, or hit by a car. And then you hear the rhetoric. "Well, any parent that allows their child to walk unsupervised near a swimming pool is a BAD PARENT!" And it's hard to argue with that. The possibility of a child drowning when not walking near a pool is zero, and possibility of a child drowning when walking near a pool is greater than zero. Solution? Never allow your child to go near water, ever.

I totally agree with your opinions though. I'd LOVE for my kid to have the carefree "do whatever you want" childhood that I did, but it's really hard as a parent to let go and trust that he'll come home safely when the media yells at us that kids are very fragile creatures that need to be watched very carefully and here are fifteen very graphic examples why.

[kandrathe]

"Well, any parent that allows their child to walk unsupervised near a swimming pool is a BAD PARENT!" And it's hard to argue with that. The possibility of a child drowning when not walking near a pool is zero, and possibility of a child drowning when walking near a pool is greater than zero. Solution? Never allow your child to go near water, ever.

Beyond being convicted by the media hype, there is also the law.

Minnesota Code - 609.378 — Neglect or endangerment of a child.
"Subdivision 1. Persons guilty of neglect or
endangerment. (a) Neglect. (1) A parent, legal
guardian, or caretaker who willfully deprives a child of
necessary food, clothing, shelter, health care, or supervision
appropriate to the child's age, when the parent, guardian, or
caretaker is reasonably able to make the necessary provisions
and the deprivation harms or is likely to substantially harm the
child's physical, mental, or emotional health is guilty of
neglect of a child and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not
more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than
$3,000, or both."

The arguable phrase above being "supervision appropriate to the child's age". Is it my opinion as parent, or that of a judge or a jury of my peers? According to the wording of this law, it is neglect if my son is playing in the yard unsupervised and witnesses something that gives him nightmares (e.g. black bear slays a deer). Although, if I was watching him when he experienced the same event and had the same nightmares, then I wouldn't be neglectful. If you were a zealous prosecutor, you might even construe this law to apply when parents allow their children to watch PG movies (perhaps Mommie Dearest) without supervision. (<-- notice how I deftly kept this on topic )

Anyway, the cultural connotation is that good parents do not leave their children unattended. Many studies link parental over-protection to neurotic cowardly children (exhibiting functional somatic symptoms* -- i.e. anxiety disorders).

* MS Word now includes the squiggly blue line.

[Alram]

I saw a terrific movie last night: Gran Torino with and by Clint Eastwood.

Some quotes from the movie:

My name? It's "Take your crude, overly obvious come-on to every woman who walks past and cram it." That's my name.

I once fixed a door that wasn't even broken yet.

I'll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

Yeah, well just keep your hands off my dog.
No worries, we only eat cats.

Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone.

Hmm. Reading those quotes, I don't know if I'd necessarily want to see the movie. But it is really really good.

[Jim]

I saw a terrific movie last night: Gran Torino with and by Clint Eastwood.

Some quotes from the movie:

My name? It's "Take your crude, overly obvious come-on to every woman who walks past and cram it." That's my name.

I once fixed a door that wasn't even broken yet.

I'll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

Yeah, well just keep your hands off my dog.
No worries, we only eat cats.

Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone.

Hmm. Reading those quotes, I don't know if I'd necessarily want to see the movie. But it is really really good.

Hi,

Gran Torino is one of my all time favorite Clint Eastwood movies...I love ALL his movies I can't think of one I do not like.

IF u like romance I recommend: The Bridges of Madison County with Meryl Streep.

[LochnarITB]

A movie that surprised me was Sunshine. I thought someone had recommended it here, but I can't find any such post, so maybe not. I had it sitting on my DVR, having recorded it off of Syfy, and finally got around to watching it. If you can ignore problems with the physics of dealing with the sun, I would recommend it for a 2 hour sacrifice of your time.

[DeeBye]

A movie that surprised me was Sunshine. I thought someone had recommended it here, but I can't find any such post, so maybe not. I had it sitting on my DVR, having recorded it off of Syfy, and finally got around to watching it. If you can ignore problems with the physics of dealing with the sun, I would recommend it for a 2 hour sacrifice of your time.

I hope it was me, because I loved Sunshine! Almost nobody I know has seen it, which is a shame. The ending was sort of weird, but the rest of the movie was incredibly engrossing.

If you liked Sunshine, I urge you to look up Moon.

New movie recommendation: Priest
I liked Priest a LOT. It's a post-apocalyptic thing with vampires, and badass priests that kill them. It sort of reminded me of The Book of Eli , but with WAY more action and a much better story.