Need Help Picking a Book

[Taem]

...and I can't think of anyone on the internet I'd rather hear from than my esteemed peers here at the LL. I did a lot of casual searching yesterday and today and turned up some hopeful suggestions, but nothing that quite fit my criteria. But first, let me explain: My son is reading the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, and I never finished that series, so I decided to take another run with it. After the second novel, I can't help but feel I'm reading a tweens' book, if you know what I mean? I need something with a little more substance, where the characters have more depth, peoples actions have serious consequences, love is something more than just a peck on the cheek. I want something more adult in nature! Having said that, I'm interested in a fantasy setting novel, perhaps even historic in nature, perhaps a bit dark, definitely more on the realistic side, although a bit of magic is always welcomed as long as it adheres to its own rules (no Fizban type characters). Finally, if it had a bit of, Thriller in it, like a horror novel might, that would be grand. My father (I'm sure this will sound bad), used to read me Steven King novels as a child before bed, and I love that intense sensation of being chased, or something is going to get you! Not the Goosebumps kind, but the real deal with a gritty reality, such as in the movie 28-days later.

I know this is a hefty set of criteria to fulfill, and probably the reason I am having such a difficult time finding the perfect book! I've come across a lot of good fantasy setting suggestions that are dark, but most are either too dark (having a great deal to do with child abuse and torture, which in moderation isn't too hard to stomach), or too fantastic (i.e. a city hanging over a void by chains with a dead god beneath - doesn't matter if it is written well if its too fantastic to get into).

Anyways, let me know your thoughts, and I'll surly pick something out soon. If I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, at least I'm sure I'll get a nice solid list for later . Thanks for any replies ahead of time!

[Skandranon]

http://www.baen.com/library/0671876422/0671876422.htm

There's a link to Oath of Swords by David Weber at the Baen Free Library. I'm not sure if it really fits all your criteria or not, but it's worth a try.

[mommie]

Try this series
http://www.harlows.org/don/reviews/islan...f_time.php

and when you are done with those, this one "Dies the Fire" by the same author

Then there is "Deathstalker" http://hubpages.com/hub/The_Deathstalker...on_R_Green

[Tal]

...and I can't think of anyone on the internet I'd rather hear from than my esteemed peers here at the LL. I did a lot of casual searching yesterday and today and turned up some hopeful suggestions, but nothing that quite fit my criteria. But first, let me explain: My son is reading the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, and I never finished that series, so I decided to take another run with it. After the second novel, I can't help but feel I'm reading a tweens' book, if you know what I mean? I need something with a little more substance, where the characters have more depth, peoples actions have serious consequences, love is something more than just a peck on the cheek. I want something more adult in nature! Having said that, I'm interested in a fantasy setting novel, perhaps even historic in nature, perhaps a bit dark, definitely more on the realistic side, although a bit of magic is always welcomed as long as it adheres to its own rules (no Fizban type characters). Finally, if it had a bit of, Thriller in it, like a horror novel might, that would be grand. My father (I'm sure this will sound bad), used to read me Steven King novels as a child before bed, and I love that intense sensation of being chased, or something is going to get you! Not the Goosebumps kind, but the real deal with a gritty reality, such as in the movie 28-days later.

I know this is a hefty set of criteria to fulfill, and probably the reason I am having such a difficult time finding the perfect book! I've come across a lot of good fantasy setting suggestions that are dark, but most are either too dark (having a great deal to do with child abuse and torture, which in moderation isn't too hard to stomach), or too fantastic (i.e. a city hanging over a void by chains with a dead god beneath - doesn't matter if it is written well if its too fantastic to get into).

Anyways, let me know your thoughts, and I'll surly pick something out soon. If I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, at least I'm sure I'll get a nice solid list for later . Thanks for any replies ahead of time!

George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series

[Kevin]

I'm going to recommend something down a different tract in that it's "setting" is actually quite modern, but yet you get a lot of fantasy setting too the way it's set up.

Tad Williams Otherland series (http://www.tadwilliams.com/book.aspx?id=17 link for the first book)

I've not yet read his Shadowmarch stuff, but if it follows his style, that setting could appeal to you as well, but again I've not yet read it.

[Drasca]

I'm liking the Dresden files by Jim butcher so far!

[shoju]

I just finished reading the CS Lewis Sci-Fi trilogy again,

Out of the Silent Planet
Perelandra
That Hideous Strength

And while it doesn't fit your criteria, I just have to say, It was a fantastic Read. I hadn't read it in about 10 years. Loved it.

[Maitre]

George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series

I was considering suggesting this series, but decided against it. I for one am loosing track of what happened in the most recent book while waiting for the next one which is now, what, 4 years overdue ? I think the world is coming to an end from no less than three directions, right?

I'm also not sure it would be particularly satisfying if MEAT is looking for somthing in which "peoples actions have serious consequences." To the best of my memory the consequences of action are most often death, death, omen of revenge in your future, death, betrayal, usurpery, death, death, death, and death. Serious though those consequences may be, the prediction of a character's future upon their introduction is not whether they wil survive, or will they turn on their fellows, it's how many will they betray, and who will be holding the dagger that's cuddling their kidney.

Not that the books are a bad read. I just think that MEAT may be looking for something a bit different.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I need something with a little more substance, where the characters have more depth, peoples actions have serious consequences, love is something more than just a peck on the cheek. I want something more adult in nature! Having said that, I'm interested in a fantasy setting novel, perhaps even historic in nature, perhaps a bit dark, definitely more on the realistic side, although a bit of magic is always welcomed as long as it adheres to its own rules (no Fizban type characters). Finally, if it had a bit of, Thriller in it, like a horror novel might, that would be grand.

By Poul Anderson The King of YS pretty much meets all your criteria. Also good by him in this genre are Hrolf Kraki's Saga and Three Hearts and Three Lions.

By Roger Zelazny the first Amber series is good, but a little light. The second series is so-so. The Last Defender of Camelot is an interesting twist on the whole concept.

Then there is Barnes and Niven's Dream Park, a detective novel inside a fantasy novel inside a science fiction novel -- brilliant and fun. Another good one (with Pournelle) is The Legacy of Heorot.

Give me some examples (authors, titles, series) of what you enjoyed, and I might be able to add to this list.

--Pete

[swirly]

George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series

I was considering suggesting this series, but decided against it. I for one am loosing track of what happened in the most recent book while waiting for the next one which is now, what, 4 years overdue ? I think the world is coming to an end from no less than three directions, right?

I'm also not sure it would be particularly satisfying if MEAT is looking for somthing in which "peoples actions have serious consequences." To the best of my memory the consequences of action are most often death, death, omen of revenge in your future, death, betrayal, usurpery, death, death, death, and death. Serious though those consequences may be, the prediction of a character's future upon their introduction is not whether they wil survive, or will they turn on their fellows, it's how many will they betray, and who will be holding the dagger that's cuddling their kidney.

Not that the books are a bad read. I just think that MEAT may be looking for something a bit different.

I was going to post recommending Song of Fire and Ice and so figured I'd comment on this too. Despite recommending it to Meat (and I do think he would like and enjoy it), I don't disagree with Maitre. The series almost has the opposite problem of the Deathgate series. Deathgate is too fun and simple. It's frivolous and I tended to read it with a not taking itself too serious kind of vibe. Song of Fire and Ice on the other hand takes itself too serious. To the degree that the conspiring, backstabbing, and general killing takes too prominent of a role. It doesn't want to make any one character the main special/protected character and as such goes the other way and makes everyone expendable. Despite all of that though, I do think it is worth reading. I thought this before it became hugely popular with the HBO show coming and I think it's popularly probably makes it even better to read now since it increases the odds of there being people to discuss it with.

[Tal]

I was considering suggesting this series, but decided against it. I for one am loosing track of what happened in the most recent book while waiting for the next one which is now, what, 4 years overdue ? I think the world is coming to an end from no less than three directions, right?

I'm also not sure it would be particularly satisfying if MEAT is looking for somthing in which "peoples actions have serious consequences." To the best of my memory the consequences of action are most often death, death, omen of revenge in your future, death, betrayal, usurpery, death, death, death, and death. Serious though those consequences may be, the prediction of a character's future upon their introduction is not whether they wil survive, or will they turn on their fellows, it's how many will they betray, and who will be holding the dagger that's cuddling their kidney.

Not that the books are a bad read. I just think that MEAT may be looking for something a bit different.

I think you should re-read the series. Not every consequence in the series ends in death - anything else is a significant understatement.

[Klaus]

...and I can't think of anyone on the internet I'd rather hear from than my esteemed peers here at the LL. I did a lot of casual searching yesterday and today and turned up some hopeful suggestions, but nothing that quite fit my criteria. But first, let me explain: My son is reading the Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, and I never finished that series, so I decided to take another run with it. After the second novel, I can't help but feel I'm reading a tweens' book, if you know what I mean? I need something with a little more substance, where the characters have more depth, peoples actions have serious consequences, love is something more than just a peck on the cheek. I want something more adult in nature! Having said that, I'm interested in a fantasy setting novel, perhaps even historic in nature, perhaps a bit dark, definitely more on the realistic side, although a bit of magic is always welcomed as long as it adheres to its own rules (no Fizban type characters). Finally, if it had a bit of, Thriller in it, like a horror novel might, that would be grand. My father (I'm sure this will sound bad), used to read me Steven King novels as a child before bed, and I love that intense sensation of being chased, or something is going to get you! Not the Goosebumps kind, but the real deal with a gritty reality, such as in the movie 28-days later.

I know this is a hefty set of criteria to fulfill, and probably the reason I am having such a difficult time finding the perfect book! I've come across a lot of good fantasy setting suggestions that are dark, but most are either too dark (having a great deal to do with child abuse and torture, which in moderation isn't too hard to stomach), or too fantastic (i.e. a city hanging over a void by chains with a dead god beneath - doesn't matter if it is written well if its too fantastic to get into).

Anyways, let me know your thoughts, and I'll surly pick something out soon. If I can't find exactly what I'm looking for, at least I'm sure I'll get a nice solid list for later . Thanks for any replies ahead of time!

George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series

Seconded.

I will also recommend:
Cryptonomicon
Anathem
The Baroque Cycle

all by Neal Stephenson. I will warn, however, that the Baroque Cycle is dense.

[Alram]

Stephen R. Donaldson wrote a series of books which meet all of your criteria. They are excellent.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever -- a trilogy
Lord Foul's Bane
The Illearth War
The Power that Preserves

The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -- 2nd trilogy in the same series

[--Pete]

Hi,

Stephen R. Donaldson wrote a series of books which meet all of your criteria. They are excellent.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever -- a trilogy
Lord Foul's Bane
The Illearth War
The Power that Preserves

The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant -- 2nd trilogy in the same series

Second that! A great read.

--Pete

[Taem]

George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series

I was considering suggesting this series, but decided against it. I for one am loosing track of what happened in the most recent book while waiting for the next one which is now, what, 4 years overdue ? I think the world is coming to an end from no less than three directions, right?

I'm also not sure it would be particularly satisfying if MEAT is looking for somthing in which "peoples actions have serious consequences." To the best of my memory the consequences of action are most often death, death, omen of revenge in your future, death, betrayal, usurpery, death, death, death, and death. Serious though those consequences may be, the prediction of a character's future upon their introduction is not whether they wil survive, or will they turn on their fellows, it's how many will they betray, and who will be holding the dagger that's cuddling their kidney.

Not that the books are a bad read. I just think that MEAT may be looking for something a bit different.

I'm not sure. This is one of the book series that kept coming up on Google and Amazon yesterday and the day before when searching for: "Dark Adult Fantasy -young". I guess if its also recommended here, I'm probably going to give it a try!

[Chesspiece_face]

Sounds like you are looking for Stephen King's The Eyes of the Dragon.

Wonderful book.

[Taem]

Hi,

I need something with a little more substance, where the characters have more depth, peoples actions have serious consequences, love is something more than just a peck on the cheek. I want something more adult in nature! Having said that, I'm interested in a fantasy setting novel, perhaps even historic in nature, perhaps a bit dark, definitely more on the realistic side, although a bit of magic is always welcomed as long as it adheres to its own rules (no Fizban type characters). Finally, if it had a bit of, Thriller in it, like a horror novel might, that would be grand.

By Poul Anderson The King of YS pretty much meets all your criteria. Also good by him in this genre are Hrolf Kraki's Saga and Three Hearts and Three Lions.

By Roger Zelazny the first Amber series is good, but a little light. The second series is so-so. The Last Defender of Camelot is an interesting twist on the whole concept.

Then there is Barnes and Niven's Dream Park, a detective novel inside a fantasy novel inside a science fiction novel -- brilliant and fun. Another good one (with Pournelle) is The Legacy of Heorot.

Give me some examples (authors, titles, series) of what you enjoyed, and I might be able to add to this list.

--Pete

I've had so many good suggestions I've been checking out from you guys on Amazon, it's fantastic! A few PM's also with great suggestions! I can't wait to sink my teeth into some of this material!

As for what I like; this list is from the Adult section I've read, as opposed to the young adult section. A lot of it does not fit my specific criteria I'm searching for in this thread, however conveys the writing style and authors I've read and enjoyed:

You might note of the passage in my Signature of Anna Karenina By Leo Tolstoy. The writing is so excellent, and the characters rich. This is a *bad* example of the "genre" of book I'm looking for, but a great example of the writing style I'm looking for!

Early Steven King works, while a bit crude and juvenile IMO, have that intensity as the story builds up that keeps you on the edge of your seat while reading it! I very much enjoy this.

Followed closely by H.P. Lovecraft; I love his stories, but not so much his writing style.

Also, I think I read some Alfred Hitchcock books and really enjoyed them!

Dislike:

Dune was a bit too dry for my taste. I like a vivid story that doesn't have to stop every couple of pages for an in-depth explanation of political factions.

From what I remember, LotR was similar in that it went on and on and on with vivid descriptions. If you could get past all that, the story was epic, but just not quite what I'm looking for (although, it has been awhile, and my tastes have certainly changed; who knows).

Hope that helps. Sorry I can't add any more examples, but my library is pretty sparse; after school, I filled it with video games and now, I've grown to enjoy reading in my free time and find video games... well, in a nutshell, they've lost their luster.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Dune was a bit too dry for my taste.

That's got to be the double entendre of the year.

If you like King, try Koontz. I have 26 of his books and I'd recommend any or all of them to someone that enjoy that genre.

Might I suggest you check out your local library instead of Amazon? Most of these books, good as they are, are read once books. The library has two advantages. First, they are free, so you don't feel compelled to read a book because you've paid for it. Second, you don't have to store, move, dust, etc. library books -- you'll have people that do that for you.

Oh, and if you enjoyed Anna Karenina you might want to give The Brothers Karamazov a try. In some ways, I think Dostoevsky is a better writer than Tolstoy.

--Pete

[Maitre]

I think you should re-read the series. Not every consequence in the series ends in death - anything else is a significant understatement.

Fine, fine, I'd plead guilty to oversimplification, but not guilty to any other charge.

I've definately left out intervening steps such as (spoilers I guess?): paralysis (leading to animalistic link), poisoning (leading to death), marriage (repeatedly leading to death), blindness (cliffhanger), motherhood (then widowhood, coronation, and cliffhanger), death (then undeath), loss of vassals, gain of vassals, etc.

Maybe a reread would be worthwhile, but I don't have space in my reading list at the moment.

[Tal]

Fine, fine, I'd plead guilty to oversimplification, but not guilty to any other charge.

I've definately left out intervening steps such as (spoilers I guess?): paralysis (leading to animalistic link), poisoning (leading to death), marriage (repeatedly leading to death), blindness (cliffhanger), motherhood (then widowhood, coronation, and cliffhanger), death (then undeath), loss of vassals, gain of vassals, etc.

Maybe a reread would be worthwhile, but I don't have space in my reading list at the moment.

I really don't want to give out any spoilers to anyone else reading this who hasn't read the series. Death is a certainty in life - George R. R. Martin's series doesn't flinch from that. But there are consequences in the series that the characters themselves view as worse than death.