New details on cataclysm stat changes

[Concillian]

So, getting all possible weapons on all 10 80s to 400 was worthless?! I object!!

It's not worthless. You got your achievements for it, and I'm sure they'll convert the achievements to feats of strength. You'll be special! Or speshul... one of the two.

[Concillian]

No. At the same odds of parrying vs. dodging, parry would reduce variance much, much more than dodge. You'd get hit for smaller increments, which would make you easier to heal. Parry would simply be better.

-Jester

At extremes, however, parry would become obsolete faster, as two parries in a row negates some benefit and if you happen to roll a dodge or miss on the next opponent attack it negates even more.

Parry provides variance reduction, but dodge will statistically provide more damage reduction on average.

Which is better depends on the fight. In a fight like Deathbringer Saurfang, where mechanics favor a complete miss, new dodge will be superior to new parry. In a fight like Festergut, where the hits are large, then new parry is better than new dodge. I'm sure there will still be variations in fights that give preference to one or another stat. IMO this is much better than the current system where one is just flat out better than the other in every realistic case.

[Concillian]

I prefer to think they are working under a model that won't waste a parry "charge". I use charge for lack of a better term at the moment.

The way I read this comment suggests the are not. At least not yet:

"it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all)."

[Taelas]

Lore from TankSpot is putting some words on what the changes are here.

You're right, Jester, I completely missed the variance argument. But from their comments, I assume variance will be less of a problem than it is at present, as there should be far fewer truly massive hits in Cataclysm. The sequence of hits will also matter now, as Conc said.

Still, I see the point now.

[Jester]

At extremes, however, parry would become obsolete faster, as two parries in a row negates some benefit and if you happen to roll a dodge or miss on the next opponent attack it negates even more.

Parry provides variance reduction, but dodge will statistically provide more damage reduction on average.

You are correct here, if dodges can overwrite parries entirely, rather than just "bumping" them to the next attack. That would create a natural dis-synergy between the two, meaning you'd want to stack one or the other, but not both, ceteris paribus. (Not that anyone is likely to be able to have the gear choices to exclusively stack one or the other.)

Of course, the value here depends on the interaction with healing as well. If healers running out of mana is a big issue, then overall average damage might matter more than variance. It hasn't been that way for ages, but they have certainly made some gestures in that direction for Cataclysm.

Which is better depends on the fight. In a fight like Deathbringer Saurfang, where mechanics favor a complete miss, new dodge will be superior to new parry. In a fight like Festergut, where the hits are large, then new parry is better than new dodge. I'm sure there will still be variations in fights that give preference to one or another stat.

This is also true. I was assuming that the risk to the tank was in getting instagibbed, rather than in some stacking debuff... although, this itself assumes that parries will not prevent debuffs from stacking, which I'm not sure about.

IMO this is much better than the current system where one is just flat out better than the other in every realistic case.

Very much so. One of several ways I'm hoping the game gets even better in Cataclysm.

-Jester

[Tuftears]

So, will bears finally be able to parry? :shuriken:

[Taelas]

Some new details on the Mastery system here.