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[Occhidiangela]

Saw it. Cameron remade Pocahantas, with Space and Starcraft as moderating influences.

Mrs Occhi really wanted to see it. She fell asleep less than an hour into it.

I of course stayed awake.

Needed more, not less, Starcraft emulation, for my money.

My one moment of intrigue: if the guy and the girl having sex do that braid nerver bundle merge thing, what is the point of genitalia? Also, isn't he treating her like the riding beast he merged with a few minutes before, or was she enticing him to "fly united" with her as he'd "flown united" with that flying lizard a bit before?

Interesting sexual synergy in that one, that I think most people missed.

Yes, my brain comes up with this crap all by itself. It's a curse.

Occhi

[Lissa]

Saw it. Cameron remade Pocahantas, with Space and Starcraft as moderating influences.

Mrs Occhi really wanted to see it. She fell asleep less than an hour into it.

I of course stayed awake.

Needed more, not less, Starcraft emulation, for my money.

My one moment of intrigue: if the guy and the girl having sex do that braid nerver bundle merge thing, what is the point of genitalia? Also, isn't he treating her like the riding beast he merged with a few minutes before, or was she enticing him to "fly united" with her as he'd "flown united" with that flying lizard a bit before?

Interesting sexual synergy in that one, that I think most people missed.

Yes, my brain comes up with this crap all by itself. It's a curse.

Occhi

FYI, Cameron has said that the director's cut will keep the sex scene in... :whistling:

[Jester]

The comparison I've seen made is Ferngully. Also Dances with Wolves.

I thought the effects were shiny. Other than that, the movie was competent, but quite mediocre.

I'm getting quite sick of the same stock of characters for every movie involving "natives" of any kind:

1) The Outsider Hero: This initially-clueless but good-hearted boob wanders into the "tribe," and is initially accepted on a tentative basis. He is taught the ways of the land (cue montage), and it slowly becomes clear that not only is he integrating, he is, in fact, the best "native," some kind of hero or Chosen One ™. Will complete some kind of prophesied quest, in order to unite the tribes and defeat the Weapon-Toting Bigot, who he knows from his earlier, unredeemed life.

2) The Love Interest: The daughter of the Chief, or somesuch - initially disdainful of the Outsider Hero's incompetence, but slowly falls in love with his clumsy charm, as she comes to realize that he's the protagonist. Good at everything, even things that would (historically) have been gender-segregated, like fighting wars - but not as good as the Hero becomes, of course.

3) The Stubborn Heir-apparent: This scowling guy had it all, before the meddling OH came along: he was going to be the leader, and probably the husband of the LI as well. Deeply traditional, easily offended, and thick as a brick. He will challenge the OH to some kind of traditional combat ritual. He is either killed, or submits when he too realizes that the OH is the protagonist.

4) The Chief: Enigmatic, pompous, and clueless about everything outside the "traditions". Usually dies a horrible death, precipitating conflict between the OH and the Stubborn Heir-apparent.

5) The Shaman: Bat#$%& crazy. Believes things that don't make sense. Simultaneously represents how "natives" are more connected to the spirits (or the earth, or whatever), and also how they can't think rationally, but rely on tradition and freaky transcendental revelations.

6) The Weapon-Toting Bigot: The anti-"native". Always the villain, always thin as paper, always heavily armed with the latest in high-tech killin' machines. A cartoon of contempt for anyone not from his culture, without even the slightest trace of redeeming qualities.

Would it kill writers to maybe try a little harder? Even if you're going to use these stereotypes, at least try to freshen them up a little: take Dune, for example. You can recognize all those characters, more or less, but they're at least given some development beyond the obvious.

Avatar? Not so much.

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm getting quite sick of the same stock of characters for every movie involving "natives" of any kind:

Shhhh! You're giving it away. All movies, and most books, today are written by a software package. One which, BTW, has very few variables. :lol:

Actually, what you describe goes back quite far. Many elements of that can be seen in the Iliad and in Beowulf. Like you said, it's not new elements but a fresh treatment of the old that gives the semblance of originality. :whistling:

--Pete

[Sir_Die_alot]

Maybe I'm shallow but I liked it. The story does follow the same lines as a lot before but name something recent that doesn't. <_<My biggest complaint is it followed more modern stereotype lines: Scientists = good, military = bad, natives = ultra treehuggers. At least the story gave a good reason for the last of those 3.

As for things like the protagonist falling in love, the antagonist dying in some glorious way ect ect. That's what makes the movie good. Not that you don't expect it but that you want to see it out. It would be a horrible movie if the protagonist died, the natives were enslaved or wiped out, and the world was stripmined. :D

[--Pete]

Hi,

It would be a horrible movie if the protagonist died, the natives were enslaved or wiped out, and the world was stripmined. :D

Yeah, that would make it a documentary. :P

--Pete

[Archon_Wing]

I thought it was ok; but mostly just eye candy. And ultralisks were truly imbalanced.;)I also laughed heavily at the usb nature thing, and how the hell did he get a 2nd flying creature; what happened to the first? :o

[Sir_Die_alot]

Hi,
Yeah, that would make it a documentary. :P

--Pete

I hate real life. I'm going to go play WoW now.^_^

[Jester]

Maybe I'm shallow but I liked it. The story does follow the same lines as a lot before but name something recent that doesn't. <_<My biggest complaint is it followed more modern stereotype lines: Scientists = good, military = bad, natives = ultra treehuggers. At least the story gave a good reason for the last of those 3.

As for things like the protagonist falling in love, the antagonist dying in some glorious way ect ect. That's what makes the movie good. Not that you don't expect it but that you want to see it out. It would be a horrible movie if the protagonist died, the natives were enslaved or wiped out, and the world was stripmined. :D

It's not that the protagonist wins and the antagonist loses, or that the love interest and the hero fall in love, or whatever. Those things are pretty much bog standard, and as much as I prefer them to be tweaked, they're not going away.

What I object to is that the same stupid characters follow the same stupid story, whenever "native" people are involved. The chief is always the same chief, wearing a different headdress or tattoos. The love interest is always the same girl, maybe with different skin colour. They don't even bother to give them a separate personality beyond what is absolutely necessary to keep the plot going - they're fixtures in the room labelled "tribe".

Stories *by* indigenous groups are amazingly varied and interesting; is it too much to ask that stories *about* them deviate from the stereotype by more than a few inches in any direction?

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

Stories *by* indigenous groups are amazingly varied and interesting; is it too much to ask that stories *about* them deviate from the stereotype by more than a few inches in any direction?

You're bordering on a serious discussion with this question. Watch yourself. ;)

I think that the whole movie making process has too many cooks. Many of those cooks have no taste and no appreciation of the art. They are simply investors who want a large return on their investment, will settle for a small return, and absolutely do not want a loss. They look at what has done well in the past, try to distill its essence, usually fail miserably, and demand it be used in their movie. They try to replace imaginative story telling talent with a formula for box office success. And what they usually produce is recycled pap.

Did you know that an early movie version of Anna Karenina was made with two endings? So, bastardizing a story to increase the take is nothing new.

--Pete

[Jester]

Did you know that an early movie version of Anna Karenina was made with two endings? So, bastardizing a story to increase the take is nothing new.

No kidding - they did it to King Lear. What chance did poor Tolstoy have?

-Jester

[Hammerskjold]

I'm a computer graphics student so I probably will see it just to study the eye candy alone.

Having said that, I have the impression that if I wanted something a bit more meaty storywise, I should just go watch 'District 9' again.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

My biggest complaint is it followed more modern stereotype lines: Scientists = good, military = bad, [...]

Heh, look likes that's all up to interpretation. :DMy wife's main complaint about the movie was just the other way around: That until the ex-marine comes and manages to befriend the natives, all the scientists with their PhDs were unable to accomplish much. For example, Sigourney Weaver (forgot her movie character's name) more than once made a snide remark about how much scientific training all the others in their lab have and what the protagonist thinks he can accomplish with his big gun and no training...and lo and behold! Looks like only ex-marines have the good heart to really understand the natives.

The bad guys more represented big corporations than the military, I think.

-Kylearan

[Jester]

The bad guys more represented big corporations than the military, I think.

Maybe I'm just reading Avatar backwards into the stereotype, but these plots usually have two types of villain.

The first is amoral - in Avatar's case, the corporate manager. He isn't evil, per se, he just cares about his bottom line, and doesn't care about anything else. He's willing to play nice when it doesn't cost him anything, but when it becomes clear where his interests lie, he unleashes the dogs - that is to say, the Weapon-Toting Bigot. (Usually, he comes to regret this decision somehow, but loses his say when it comes down to war.)

The Bigot, by contrast, is actively evil - the Colonel. He enjoys killing people and destroying things, for reasons which are more personal than philosophical. And once he's been attacked or wounded in some way, he's also a vengeful SoB, so he's not going to stop until everything's dead.

-Jester

[[wcip]Angel]

Hi,
Yeah, that would make it a documentary. :P

--Pete

<-- I lol'ed!

Unapologetically, I loved the film. The visual presentation was truly revolutionary, and James Horner did a masterful job with the score. "Rallying the clans" gave me goosebumps!

As for characters and plot. Tried and true, sure. But I believe when it comes to film, story/plot/character clichés can either be done well, or they can be Michael Bay'd. I felt Avatar fell into the former category.

Saw it last week in 2D. Will be back for the 3D-outing tomorrow. Looking forward to it!:)

[Sir_Die_alot]

I saw it in 3d. First 3d film and it was a good one for it. Twice there was a bug my brain told me to shoo away the moment before the reality kicked in that it was on the screen.

[Skandranon]

Hah! Glad I'm not the only one who has weird thoughts about movies.

Mine regarding Avatar happened at the end, when they are "allowing" the humans to "leave". The opening shot already confirms it takes 5+ years to get to Pandora, probably at some low multiplier of light-speed. This is also likely how interstellar messages get passed. As a result, unless the home company on Earth expected a mass evacuation at exactly that moment, there is no cryo ship to take them back. Several months have passed since the original one was there, and it's not likely to have been in standby orbit: it probably offloaded its passengers and left, since there's no practical economic use to holding a cryo ship in orbit indefinitely. The humans were shoved, en masse, into a subluminal shuttlecraft to die of starvation in space.

Cheery thought, no?

[Jester]

Mine regarding Avatar happened at the end, when they are "allowing" the humans to "leave". The opening shot already confirms it takes 5+ years to get to Pandora, probably at some low multiplier of light-speed. This is also likely how interstellar messages get passed. As a result, unless the home company on Earth expected a mass evacuation at exactly that moment, there is no cryo ship to take them back. Several months have passed since the original one was there, and it's not likely to have been in standby orbit: it probably offloaded its passengers and left, since there's no practical economic use to holding a cryo ship in orbit indefinitely. The humans were shoved, en masse, into a subluminal shuttlecraft to die of starvation in space.

There is a corporation operating there. Surely they don't run an entire mining operation that they can't evacuate at all without 10 years notice.

-Jester

[Viscous]

Angel' date='Jan 30 2010, 08:40 AM' post='177176']

Saw it last week in 2D. Will be back for the 3D-outing tomorrow. Looking forward to it!:)

I've always been skeptical of 3D stuff. You get 3D but it seems to come at the cost of brightness and clarity.

Avatar in 3D seemed especially dark (speaking of color here). I haven't seen it in 2D so maybe it's supposed to be dark. Or maybe my theater just sucks or my eyes are bad!

[Sir_Die_alot]

Hah! Glad I'm not the only one who has weird thoughts about movies.

Mine regarding Avatar happened at the end, when they are "allowing" the humans to "leave". The opening shot already confirms it takes 5+ years to get to Pandora, probably at some low multiplier of light-speed. This is also likely how interstellar messages get passed. As a result, unless the home company on Earth expected a mass evacuation at exactly that moment, there is no cryo ship to take them back. Several months have passed since the original one was there, and it's not likely to have been in standby orbit: it probably offloaded its passengers and left, since there's no practical economic use to holding a cryo ship in orbit indefinitely. The humans were shoved, en masse, into a subluminal shuttlecraft to die of starvation in space.

Cheery thought, no?

They probably would not have the room but the ship had not left yet. They used one of the shuttles (there are 2 docked when they arrive at Pandora) to carry the explosive at the end.