Survey on the Economy

[kandrathe]

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers. Since I asked the question, it is only fair that I go first. I'm not usually so very open about my life, but here it goes.

For me, it has delayed my plans to change my career. My wife was planning on returning to the work world after an eight year hiatus to raise our children from babies to young men. Her need to nurture has been diminishing as the boys become more independent as they have matured. So, our plan was to have me back down from my corporate quixotic madness, and embrace some new passions (such as my bronze work) and merely dabble in the corporate world as needed to help pay the bills. With my spare time, I would invest myself into helping my 7 and 9 year old boys grow up as solid citizens, and men.

However, my wife has tried hard to become employed for over a year now. She has a BS in math/stats, and an MBA in marketing with 15 years of experience working with fortune 50 firms, and excellent references. The last eight years being out of the loop doesn't help, so she's spent money to get tooled in the current technology. Even so, the jobs are few, and the list of potential candidates is huge. It appears that many companies don't need much marketing in a down economy.

And, I've found for myself, whereas before if I advertised myself available I would have to beat off offers that same day with a stick, my latest assignment took over four months to find and it actually just dropped into my lap. I've lowered my rates, and have considered positions I never would have taken 5 years ago. For the last 3 months of 2008, and the first few months of 2009, I was so certain and confident that my wife was going to get employed. But, starting in April, it became clear we needed for me to go jump in and find another full time multi year project to work on. Whew, I found a job last week. My earning rate based on the market demand is down by 20%, but I feel privileged to have work at all. At least I can now pay 80% of my bills. :)

In terms of my family, we've struggled this last year, because of my past earning rate, the government considers me "rich", but with zero income, its hard to figure out how to pay the bills and put food on the table. Our savings lasted awhile, but no one has enough of a cushion to last for over a year.

My family has not qualified for health insurance, even though Minnesota has universal coverage. It seems that due to my prior income in 2008, and the rush of applicants into the system I was deprioritized, but finally this last month my sons were put onto the Minnesota care plan. So much for a safety net (which is the part I support) helping people who are in transitions from hitting bottom.

We've only made it thus far by being lucky that no one got hurt, and we've been willing to sell off almost everything in the household, and I've hired myself out around town for cash doing anything I am able to do from computer repair, to horse training, to welding, and metal working. I've made enough to at least keep the lights on, and food on the table. We've had to tap our retirement savings to make the house payments and we've been making minimum payments on all our other bills. It sounds gloomy, but that's not where we are emotionally. I keep telling my wife, "We can do this struggling part sad or angry, or we can go into it with the gratitude that we've had the skills and opportunities we've had for the past 20 years with out struggling."

I'm still a person who believe you make your own luck, and I don't want to be a leech depending on the taxpayers if I can at all help it. And if I have to hit the safety net (which as I said was not there), I'm going to make sure its a short stay.

[Kevin]

I'm an outlier and I know it. After battling illness since early 2005, I got a job as tutor at Sylvan Learning Centers in October of 08 and then as a temp at the University in November of 08. This all because I had pretty much destroyed my wife and she had enough, is no longer in love with and told me so. The divorce should be finalized within a month. Admittedly without her saying she didn't love me anymore I may not have jump started myself.

I applied for full time positions all over the place, trying to stay in the tech field. My temp job was a programmer. The owners of the Sylvan Learning center in town filed for bankruptcy due to issues with other ventures and the other centers, the center here was still making money, and closed it down the end of January. The Jefferson City center picked up the contract we had with 2 local school distracts and from mid Feb to late April I was still working for Sylvan doing that. But we finished the contract.

I moved out of the place with my wife in early January. I was supporting myself at that point again.

The university had been in a hiring freeze since the 2nd week in November, just after I got the temp job. On April 30th they got approval to post a full time programmer position (2 seats had been sitting vacant when I hired as a temp). I applied that day. My temp appointment got extended on May 2nd to run till the end of July. After that it was done and could not be extended again. I was still in full job search mode and not finding anything. But I was looking at moving to Colorado, my brother could get me a crap job out there if need be. I was still hoping for better.

June 11th I find out that I got the full time job and would be starting with the new title and pay on the 15th. So I've been a salaried employee since the 15th. I'm happy. There were a lot of applicants, but of the ones interviewed, all who were asked the same technical questions, I was the only one that could answer them all. So it wasn't handed to me. I earned it.

I had put in applications at McDonald's and other such places for part time work back in Jan/Feb though because the income was barely enough.

I've managed to get my student loans out of default status now after a 10 month program. With that done I can now start paying back some of my other defaulted debts. I've got crap in collections I've had a few default court judgements against me. I am by no means free and clear but I'm taking car of it.

After not having a working vehicle since early 06, I got a used car last month, paid $1300 for a vehicle with a blue book price of $3000 it's been great so far. I moved from the tiny apartment I was in to a much nicer one. I debated using that extra money to pay the debt down faster but quality of life change is worth it. I'm happier.

I've lost 40 pounds since early December, still overweight (I'm 6 foot tall and 210 - 215 pounds) but I'm getting close.

I've never collected a dime of welfare, unemployment, food stamps any of that. But again I do still have crushing debt. I have health insurance again after not having anything since mid 05. Had I been able to keep the insurance or afford to pay the medical bills I wouldn't have been out of work as long as I was I don't think.

I'll be divorced here in just over a month, so my life isn't all good.

But I do realize that my efforts have been rewarded and that I am not the typical story in this economy. I've got a savings account started, I'm putting money away from retirement, I'm helping friends out when I can, and I'm paying down my debts. I'm back on my career path after a long detour. The hell hole that the economy is doesn't really matter because I've been below the poverty line since 05 anyway. Yeah I was playing WoW but that was paid for by other people.

I'm confident that no matter what happens I'll be able to deal with it and keep moving forward. I know I've not been as low as a man can get, but I've been pretty low. Unemployed, mentally ill, physically out of shape (5 minutes of exercise was painful), suffering from ED, told by my wife of over 11 years that she didn't love me anymore, and living under a mountain of debt with no means of transportation other than my own 2 feet. 10 months later I'm earning the highest salary in my life (still probably 70-100% less than I should be earning at this stage in my life but oh well) and am basically a normal person again. Just dealing with problems as they come in. If I can do that I can do whatever else I need to, #$%& hole economy or not. :)

[eppie]

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers.

Well up till now to too much. I got a undetermined contract last december (so when the crisis was in full swing), so unless the company goes down I am fine. My wife has still a few years on her contract and we just bought an appartment.
I think that as long as you have a job, the crisis will not be negative for you personally. (stuff gets cheaper)
Of course when something would happen we might get in trouble (having a mortgage and all). Anyway we decided to pay off every month so that the loan goes down......for when interest rates are rising again.

[Jester]

It's hit London like a truck... on fire... loaded with explosives... and angry lions. But I remain largely unaffected. Go go gadget fixed income!

-Jester

[weakwarrior]

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers.

I just finished a postdoc and was considering trying for another postdoc with the hope of eventually getting a cushy job as a professor of chemistry somewhere. I was somewhat burned out anyway, but the fact that many universities have hiring freezes made me think all the more so academia isn't for me. I never really wanted to do industry work, but those jobs are getting scarcer anyway. So off to law school for me. Hide my head in the sand for 3 years and hopefully when I come out the economy will have improved.

[Thenryb]

I just finished a postdoc and was considering trying for another postdoc with the hope of eventually getting a cushy job as a professor of chemistry somewhere. I was somewhat burned out anyway, but the fact that many universities have hiring freezes made me think all the more so academia isn't for me. I never really wanted to do industry work, but those jobs are getting scarcer anyway. So off to law school for me. Hide my head in the sand for 3 years and hopefully when I come out the economy will have improved.

Yet another person going to law school because he/she cannot think of what else to do. I guess it has always been that way, but I hope for your sake, you can figure out some alternative.

[Maitre]

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers.

-- snip--

I've been accepted to a distance learning masters degree and have postponed starting it due to difficulty in finding funding (I'm working full time and have gotten a committment of $1,500 in assistance a year from my employer: this is about 1.5 credits worth, and the degree is 60+ credits over 2 years). We'll see what it looks like in January when I'm supposed to start the orientation.

My wife and I were very excited to find the other day that our house's value took a tick up due to some recent sales in the area and is now down only about 15% from it's purchase price 4 years ago. We haven't had trouble making payments over the years so I can't complain too much, but with an upcoming increase in childcare expenses, we're re-evaluating our budget for the coming year.

I haven't looked too closely at my 401k statements for fear of loosing heart, but it's lost nearly 45% of it's value. Fortunately for me, I'm not expecting to retire for another ~30 years, but it's still depressing.

[eppie]

I just finished a postdoc and was considering trying for another postdoc with the hope of eventually getting a cushy job as a professor of chemistry somewhere. I was somewhat burned out anyway, but the fact that many universities have hiring freezes made me think all the more so academia isn't for me. I never really wanted to do industry work, but those jobs are getting scarcer anyway. So off to law school for me. Hide my head in the sand for 3 years and hopefully when I come out the economy will have improved.

Cool you also have a PhD in chemistry? From where and what subject if I may ask?


About law school......don't do it man.:)

[Crusader]

Odd as it may sound, the crisis affects me positively personally, but badly for my direct environment.

What happened is that most of my 45 man IT department (I work for a 100,000+ employee company) is being laid off. 80% of them are externals, so they don't really mind, they go sit on the bench at their boss. Some of my fellow contracted internal employees got fired too (well, may be fired, the company first is going to look for a new job for them the comng 6 months). I myself, however, have the luck of working with a technology that is rapidly rising in popularity in the company, so I am taken out of my administrator role and into a technical expert role, so no more working with users, but more an avisory role. This is a develpment I actually like, so while most of my colleagues had to offshore their jobs to india and then get sacked, I actually came ahead.

[kandrathe]

80% of them are externals, so they don't really mind, they go sit on the bench at their boss.

Having been a principal of a consulting firm, I'll say that the bench may be missing. There is a bench usually to keep people in a market with demand, in that the sales team has a lead time to close deals. Without demand, most of them have no hope of a next placement so they most likely will be unemployed soon.

[NuurAbSaal]

I'm also not negatively affected by the crisis. Working in alcohol-related jobs (as a bouncer in a club in my case) usually keeps you employed when the majority of other people move on to drowning their sorrows in alcohol. Thank god for human nature*.

On the other hand people seem to have gotten slightly more violent or at least more easily pissed off in the last couple of months. While this might just as well be a misconception on my part, it would make a bit of sense if it's true. So while my job is secure, I myself am less so because of the economic situation. Perhaps I should find someone to sue for that <_<.

take care
Tarabulus


*Actually: I don't believe in god and human nature is horrible.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers.

All our investments, of course, took a big hit, but that's a paper loss for now. Right now, were stuck with three pieces of real estate on the market. If they don't move, we might have to consider renting them out. That's about it, for now.

--Pete

[Concillian]

I was just wondering how the current economic upheaval in the world is affecting other loungers.

Myself and my family have seen an impact. Less directly on economics, but more indirectly socially, emotionally and even a little from the health standpoint.

I dodged the layoffs at my company (hard drive manufacturer,) though all salaried employees were forced to take a 10% pay cut (with increasing amounts for high level executives and President / CEO 15-->25%).

Retirement investments from myself and my wife obviously took a large hit, but we are so far off (both mid-30s) that's a virtual non-issue at this point.

Shorter term investment, I have a certain amount tied up in options that lost some paper value, and an employee program for company stock purchase. you set aside 10% of your after tax income for company stock that gets purchased at 85% of the stock price at the beginning or end of the 6 month term (whichever price is lower). I had some of that unsold, and obviously that took a negative hit as the stock dropped from low 20s down to 3s. However on the rebound, we got a beginning date that set the price near the low, and now it's almost 4x higher. Since it's a fixed $ investment, the sheer number of shares have offset almost all losses there.

The factory I used to work at (the last US manufacturing site of any company for the discs inside hard drives) closed late last year, and this is where I've seen the most impact. 2 people I worked with committed suicide. One who I worked with quite a lot and one who was more of a friend of a friend. As much as I try to not think about these kinds of things, they definitely have an effect.

Less seriously, I've seen a few friends out of work for a year or more, others get laid off, find a new job, and get laid off again all in les than 3 months. My in-laws both got laid off, but mother in-law got re-hired a month or two later (as a temp). All of this, even if not directly experienced, still has an emotional impact.

My wife also dodged layoffs at her work, however the reduction if force without an equivalent reduction in workload has meant additional stress for her. Since she is partly a data entry clerk, it has also meant a re-emergence of her repetitive stress injury issues in her shoulder and neck. She comes home stressed and is a little bit of a hypochondriac, so sometimes she blows her potential health issues out of proportion and I am the one who has to clam her down on that stuff.

We were very lucky to have kept our current jobs, but it still had a pretty dramatic impact overall. If I had lost my job we had enough savings that with the severance packages that went our + unemployment we could have lasted over a year with no changes, but we have a house in California... I was a little worried about being able to find a job that would pay adequately to be able to afford our house and child care and food, etc... We have no debt (aside from the house, which is quite enough) but just the daily bills are quite a lot of cash flow when you think about it.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Graduating with a Bsc. in Computer Science in a week, and the job prospects seriously depress me.

[Bun-Bun]

I'm still employed after one round of layoffs. I'm in Austin, which is one of the least-worst areas to be. I'm just wondering if retirement is still a possibility on any reasonable timescale after the hit to my portfolio ...

Of my immediate circle of friends, one has been out of work for a year, and two others have been laid off but regained work relatively painlessly.

There does seem to be some optimism in our company that thing have turned a corner and will become better later in the year.

[LennyLen]

This so-called economic crisis hasn't affected me in the slightest.

[Nystul]

I don't have any house or real property to devalue. I don't have any retirement plan or real investments to lose. And my crappy job isn't going anywhere (although it is slowing down some and the hours may be down a couple percent). I just got a fantastic $0.37/hour raise which was negotiated 2 years back. So, not much impact here. Except my landlord is charging me an extra $5 a month for garbage, but we've already covered this. :P

[weakwarrior]

Yet another person going to law school because he/she cannot think of what else to do. I guess it has always been that way, but I hope for your sake, you can figure out some alternative.

I find it rude when you make judgements about my life decisions when all you know about me is that if it weren't for the economy I may have chosen a life as a somewhat discontented chemist.

Cool you also have a PhD in chemistry? From where and what subject if I may ask?
About law school......don't do it man.:)

In this case it seems to be in fun - thus the emoticon - so I don't mind. The Ph.D. is from Berkeley on lanthanide chemistry.

[kandrathe]

In this case it seems to be in fun - thus the emoticon - so I don't mind.

Some... Lawyers have socially redeeming value. :)

My wife's brother had a Phd in Chinese literature, then decided to get his JD, passed the bar, and helped represent plaintiffs where their employer tried to deny them workers compensation for on the job injuries (eg. one fell down an unsecured elevator shaft and became paraplegic).

He ended up fighting the good fight for a few years until he became disenchanted with the system which allowed employers lawyers to stall, and delay, and deflect for years and years while the plaintiff suffered and sometimes died. So, he quit lawyering, and started his own software company, and eventually sold that and became an IT director at a company that makes software for lawyers. He also built (with help from friends and relatives) his own earth sheltered house on some land his wife inherited in Wisconsin, with self sustaining geothermal heat source. I helped him set the bricks for his floor.

But you know what they say?

Late College Parties Never Produce Sexy European Girls That Drink Heavily Even Though You Look:)

[Thenryb]

I find it rude when you make judgements about my life decisions when all you know about me is that if it weren't for the economy I may have chosen a life as a somewhat discontented chemist.
In this case it seems to be in fun - thus the emoticon - so I don't mind. The Ph.D. is from Berkeley on lanthanide chemistry.

Sorry. Did not mean to be rude. My comment was more directed to law as a career, and the discontent I have observed among its practicioners over the last 40+ years. It is also my observation that most people go to law school, not because of any burning desire to be a lawyer, but because they cannot think of anything else they want to do. Your post sounded like you were among those. Best wishes in whatever you decide to do, however.