AK Mouths Off Yet Again

[ak404]

Melee characters have always been less powerful than ranged and spell casters. Who cares? That is the way it is supposed to be - look at Diablo 1.

On the contrary, the warrior held his own very well in Diablo 1. In fact, the rogue's attack power was slightly lower than the warrior's. Remember, I'm not talking solo, I'm talking a party situation, and in Diablo 1, the sorcerer find himself having to hold back a lot.

If you don't like it, don't play those characters.

In the game, part of the equation. Can't be ignored. It's sort of like saying, "Well, Blizz, if you don't like these characters, don't fix them."

If you want to play an amazon but don't like the fact that they are over powered, then don't use strafe or multishot. Don't use an item that grants 100% pierce. Use skills that fire one arrow at a time which only hit one enemy at a time. You might find that an amazons low damage starts to become an issue when you are shooting one frenzytaur out of five who are charging at you.

Been there, done that. I believe Elric has done the same as well. Still works.

[unless]

Melee characters have always been less powerful than ranged and spell casters.  Who cares?  That is the way it is supposed to be - look at Diablo 1.  If you don't like it, don't play those characters.  If you want to play an amazon but don't like the fact that they are over powered, then don't use strafe or multishot.  Don't use an item that grants 100% pierce.  Use skills that fire one arrow at a time which only hit one enemy at a time.  You might find that an amazons low damage starts to become an issue when you are shooting one frenzytaur out of five who are charging at you.

Yeah, well, the trouble is that if I try to play on b.net with my more fun/less powerful character, I get sompletely effing smoked by everyone else in the party. I played my elementalist druid through to a Patriarch, soloed Hell Baal, raised him to Level 85 and hunted down the best equipment I could find for months. And the second I would hop in a game with a Sorc, Barb or Zon, I may as well have been standing still for all the good I was doing. That is not any fun.

The reason I want balance so desperately - and in this case, balance is just a lack of uber-builds - is so that I can try out new classes and strats and still have them be viable (if unexceptional) for mainstream b.net play.

[unless]

This is a great rant, AK, and I have to say that my very favorite thing about it is that you didn't even bother mentioning the Necromancer.

[HeWhoBabbles]

Is a television network for teeny bobber kids who like to watch angsty boys make the wrong decision concerning other angsty boys and girls.

It is also the creator/ex-hoster of Dawson's Creek.

It's commercials constantly use " Talkin 'bout my Generation" as part of its advertising.

This has all led me to believe that they are trying to break the Seven Seals of Cthulu and unleash hell into this world.

Others believe this has already happened.

[Occhidiangela]

Was a huge hit in 1964. It never seemed to age, never seems to lose its central message or appeal. Maybe teenage angst is a universal constant. :D

Like some Rolling Stones songs, such as Start Me Up which has been borrowed by many a sports stadium, the hit song has apparently been rented by folks who feel the lyrics capture just what Pete Townsend was trying to get at in his classic regarding the infamous Generation Gap of the 1960's.

Some songs are classics, such as this one, just as "Good Vibrations" from the Beach Boys and "Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones are classics that seem to travel well through time.

Nike used the Beatles "Revolution" for sneaker ads in the John McEnroe tennis overlordship era, Led Zepplin's "Rock 'n Roll" has been borrowed by Cadillac for a recent string of ads, The Clash's punk hit "London Calling" was borrowed for the James Bond film "Die Another Day," and some cell phone company has borrowed a late 70's punk hit "Go!" (Chorus lyrics are "Hey, ho, let's go!!" with a pile driving punk beat behind it.) Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'" was used in the 1960's for a tire ad, but I think they replaced "Walkin'" with "Rollin'" since the tires were being advertised.

Many a tune keeps on making money as an ad theme song once the hook that made it a hit resonates in a large enough potential audience.

Other songs, like "Cocksucker Blues" and the Sex Pistols' "I'm So Bored With The USA" don't seem to travel forward as easily, go figure.

[CelticHound]

In fact (I just thought of this), the most powerful and easy to play classes all have one thing in common: their ability to stay out of harm's way.

Hmm... I see you've just discovered something that Sirian had been ranting about for quite some time. Any attack in D2 can be neutralized, via distance. There is no "threat level" in D2, except in a couple tight, sardine-can spaces that people tend to avoid. Bliz has tried using one-hit-kills, but they aren't a test of sklll, they are a lottery. You can create threat by pushing the edges, but few people do.

I hope I can get my current Paladin to hell cows before 1.10 comes out. Even if I manage to get my ideal set of gear, he'll only be able to take on three cows at a time, max. The whole cow level will be grueling - a couple steps forward, hope I don't wake up too many - run in panic to string them out, praying I don't wake any additional mobs. Knowing that if I get surrounded, it's all over - even a four row belt of big purples will only delay the inevitable.

-- CH
(At one point, Foxbat thought that, in Seven Lances, he had rebalanced the game away from the ranged attackers. I played a Paladin there, and my experience was that it pushed him to become a ranged attacker, as well.)

[Hammerskjold]

>and some cell phone company has borrowed a late 70's punk hit "Go!" (Chorus lyrics are "Hey, ho, let's go!!" with a pile driving punk beat behind it.)

For extra points, what is the "Blietzkrieg bop"?

[Dyntheos]

I'd like to add about the necro in that I have had a similar situation playing a necro to high levels basically solo in public games and have defeated baal in hell. He's hella fun to play on my own (zookeeper) and strolls along at a nice pace in hell. Yet when iam partied he just can't keep up.

Here I have my uber leet gear that allows me to have 60 skellies and 15 revives, all going at it with my prayer merc, and golem, yet my massive army is totally over taken by any solo character, with crappy gear. Hell even a naked sorc of equal or even less level kills faster.

I HEAR YOU AK! I HEAR YOU! :(

[Brista]

the Sex Pistols' "I'm So Bored With The USA" don't seem to travel forward as easily, go figure.

It was The Clash

"Rock the Casbah" by them is still popular, I guess if you aim for enough political targets you'll find one that endures

btw, shouldn't we discuss Diablo a little - poor AK must've spent hours on that rant B)

[Hammerskjold]

I wonder just how much value Meditation would be to the Paladin.

>btw, shouldn't we discuss Diablo a little - poor AK must've spent hours on that rant

I don't know if any significant changes can be made at this point, with bliz saying 1.1 will be out any day now. No really. But I got a crazy crazy idea.

Turn the Defensive Aura tree into a passive. Bliz might like to think the Paladin is a needed member in a party, but as of right now its more like he's the one that is in need. I say give him that big Buff. He deserves it. He's been nerfed since birth.

ps. As I said this is mostly a crazy idea. But at this point I'm at a loss for sane ones. What I do agree with however, is the idea that the Paladin as the ultimate party character isn't quite working.

[ak404]

Rant took me half an hour, actually, give or take. When I get on a roll and I'm actually in front of a comp where I can type it all down, a good rant comes out fast.

BTW, to the zookeeper necro, consider a Thorns merc. The killing speed'll be even faster.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I'd just like to ask how many times you happened to die. Killing speed is not everything, is it?

I'd also like to point out that the amazon now is also overpowered due to two bugs...

[Archon_Wing]

I'm not a big fan of Ar myself. But setting it to 0 means that all the burden is all your shield and you might get blocked locked. Then of course, I hate shields too. :)

[Brista]

Rant took me half an hour, actually, give or take.

That's really impressive

I can rattle posts off but to do anything of that sort of quality takes me quite a long time

If you would consider a request, here's a subject I'd like for you to get the ball rolling on:

One hit kills (Nil, Ancients, MSLE and so on). Cheesy or an essential part of the game?

[Occhidiangela]

IU could have sworn that was the Sex Pistols, but it has been quite a while since I played any of those LP's.

[Archon_Wing]

Nilihtak... his name is so hard to spell. You can be sure that I hate you if I can't be bothered to spell your name correctly. Anyhow, I somehow do not consider the concept of one-hit kills from three screens away to be fun. His minions are cold immune, and he can summom suicide minions. That's horribly imbalanced for many characters. In fact, I have never fought him in hell. It's not like another crappy drop and a medicore quest reward that can be gotten in normal and nightmare is worth dying for. It's in protest for the super cheese that Blizzard has served. It's their excuse for introducing so many overpowered weapons in the game by introducing incredibly cheesy monsters. And the cheese is incredibly moldy.

*Boom! You're dead!*
*Boom! You're dead!*
*Lures away minions*
*Accidently kills one while 10 screens away*
*Boom you're dead!*
*Carefuly runs around minions*
*Bastard summons a suicide minion*
*Boom! You're dead!*
*Boom! You're dead!*
*Boom! You're dead!*
*Finds all the uber items, 75% DR, 95 all resist, 10000 damage*
*Kills Nithilak in one hit*

Are we having fun yet?

[Taem]

That's really impressive

I can rattle posts off but to do anything of that sort of quality takes me quite a long time

If you would consider a request, here's a subject I'd like for you to get the ball rolling on:

One hit kills (Nil, Ancients, MSLE and so on). Cheesy or an essential part of the game?

With 75% resists and 20 lighting absorb, MSLE will only slightly damage you. Any player can get this kind of set up by hell easily enough. With my sorceress, she has on a Guardian Angel armor and Thunder Gods Vigor belt and has 95% lightening resist with 20 absorb. Lightening attacks from MSLE heal her. The only problems I've had are when I was one-hit killed by an MSLE with Conviction in Chaos Sanctuary in hell - at the time, my friend first died with 75% resist and 20 light absorb, so I strapped on a Lightsabre and Blackhorns for a total of 60 absorb and 95% light resist, and I still died in one MSLE blob. Is this slightly unfair? Hell yes! So, don't stop the MSLE's... stop the MSLE's with conviction because no matter what your resists, absorb, or life is, your dead!

Ancients one hit kill? News to me, and I've been doing them for a LONG time, but with 75% DR, 75% block, and 90-95% resists, I tend to not have many problems with them unless they spawn immune to cold and lightening, in which case I cast a TP. I think that the ancients would be hard to balance because of the single player aspect. Face it, they meant for Diablo 2 to be a multi-player game and should balance it accordingly. There are suppose to be other players helping you do the ancients so they aren't as difficult.

Nith - whatever his name is. He is only a 1 hit kill if you run into his lair like a fool, killing everything around you. Using an amazon with decoy, I had no problems with him. Using a sorceress, I had to lure the monsters out of his corpse exploding range and take them out - took almost 10 minutes, but I lived to tell the tale. I don't see why all classes can't do this, so I consider your point mute.

[Archon_Wing]

Ancients one hit kill? News to me, and I've been doing them for a LONG time, but with 75% DR, 75% block, and 90-95% resists,

I didn't know you needed full DR gear and the rest of the godly items to beat the game. I thought they were optional. Guess not.
That's exactly the problem here.

You see, any one can beat the game with optimal gear. Of course, making an almost requirement for it is another story.

Of course you can take out Nil with a bowazon. You can fire guided arrows at him right through his packs. For other characters? Well, the suicide minions? How many times have you killed him with other characters?

[Taem]

I didn't know you needed full DR gear and the rest of the godly items to beat the game. I thought they were optional. Guess not.
That's exactly the  problem here.

You see, any one can beat the game with optimal gear. Of course, making an almost requirement for it is another story.

Of course you can take out Nil with a bowazon. You can fire guided arrows at him right through his packs. For other characters? Well, the suicide minions? How many times have you killed him with other characters?

FYI, I have killed the ancients in hell with characters wearing mostly rares and a few uniques I found (untwinked), but with help from 2 barbarians, 1 druid, and 1 sorceress. My point is that in a team, they're not that bad, especially if everyone focuses on one baddie at a time! Well, one character died, but that’s life in hardcore - remember how Duriel use to be? Like I said before, only in single player would this quest be near impossible.

I have done Nil lots of times with said untwinked characters to personalize my items. I always get within sight of the monsters, lure them into the hallway where Nith can't use his corpse explosion, and kill them. There are about 20-40 monsters, so if your willing to take the time to lure them out and kill them all (about 10-15 minutes), you will get the quest death free - a nice incentive in hardcore!

[Baajikiil]

It's not like another crappy drop and a medicore quest reward that can be gotten in normal and nightmare is worth dying for.

Agreed, going after him is not really worth it, unless you consider killing him to be essential to completing the game on all difficulties.

Although as MEAT says, he is certainly defeatable for most(if not all classes) it simply is not worth the risk in HC. His summoned monsters can appear fairly close to you, explode, then be corpse exploded(at more than a screen radius it seems like), in less than a second or 2. Those with a passion for danger may enjoy him though :)

A good way to make him worthwhile would be to improve the quest reward in some way. A very interesting idea that I read on the B.net forums(shudder), was to make the personalised items into a 3 item set. Only a character who personalised the items could get the bonus, but they give a partial set bonus for 2 pieces, and a full set bonus for 3 items.

That could be a decent reason to complete the quest, even if they don't nerf his CE skill.