Getting a ticket...

[MonTy]

Hail all,

I just acquired my first ticket a short a while ago. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can help me understand why I got this ticket. Here is what happened:

I'm sitting at a red light, waiting to make a left onto a street from a traffic light. I notice a cop pulls behind me and puts her blinker to also make a left. The light turns green. An old lady on the opposite side of the lane doesn't move, makes eye contact, and waves at me. I start to turn left, but when I'm in the midst of turning, she starts to move her car. Since I'm in the middle of the lane, I hit on the gas real quick so she doesn't hit me....

Since I accelerated quickly, and the street I was turning into was downhill; I was already a fair amount away from the light. I then notice the cop car turns on her lights and also makes a left. I stop, and the cop car catches up with me. She sits in her car for 4 minutes and talks on her radio. She then comes out, asks for my driver’s license, and asks if I knew why she pulled me over. I then told her what the lady did, and she agreed, but she still said I caused a dangerous situation. She then asks if my record is clean, which it is. Then she says " Ok, well you'll be getting your first few tickets today then". I then realized nothing I could say would be able to change her mind, and I was also really steamed at what she said.

I got two tickets, and as I told my dad and showed him the tickets; he got even angrier then I was. He just took them and is going to a friend cop, to see what can be done.

I've never done anything wrong. I'm a college student who just got off from 7:30 am to 6:00 pm work shift; trying to pay off my college loans and car. I've done tons of hours of community service. I told her that the tickets would affect me in a great deal. First, I'll lose my job since I drive around for a pool company. Second, my car insurance and ticket costs would be too much for me. She just said be lucky I didn't write you up for more... Wow, I've never felt so sad and so angry at the same time.

[WarLocke]

Wow, so you have jerk cops there, too?

A few years ago, after I quit my first job (McDonald's, ugh) and had to go to the main office to return my uniform in order to get my last paycheck, I was rammed while pulling out of the parking lot.

Some guy came around a blind corner (I know for a fact it was, since I had come from that direction) doing at least 55 mph (posted speed limit was 30 IIRC) and caught my rear right quarter before I could pull ahead of him. I ended up doing a 270-degree spin in the middle of the road, and he rammed a pole.

Now, I felt bad for the guy, but there's a reason you don't speed around blind corners, wakarimasu-ka?

Anyway, I got ticketed for the incident, which incensed me to no end. Apparent;y, since I was the one not hurt, I was at fault. Or something.

Sorry about your predicament; hope you can clear it up somehow.

- WL

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

There's a date printed on that ticket, indicating when you should show up and where should you find the penalty to be in err or unfair. Make plans to show up for that.

If everything in your story holds true, there is every chance that the judge will exercise goodwill and remove the offense. However, despite the fact that "old lady" indicated you should go first through the intersection... SHE had the right of way, not you.

Technically, you are in the wrong. Morally, you should have gotten a warning and a stern look.

It's worth fighting. Give it your best, and luck to you.

[Kryn]

I've currently received three speeding tickets.

1. Leaving high school. One of the roads leading from the parking lot to the main road is 25 mph, and of course a cop waits there on random days right after school ends. Got me going 35 mph.

2. Heading home from work at 11:00PM. 59 mph on a 50 mph road.

3. Heading home from school. Driving down a side road I always take, cop happens to be sitting at the end waiting. 30 mph on a 15 mph road.

As you can tell, speed traps have jipped me pretty well. I just don't understand why the road was 15 mph. Seems pretty ridiculous to me. Oh well, I guess in the end, I deserved it.

[Roland]

But common sense shows what you did wrong. I'm (almost) surprised you don't know.

I start to turn left, but when I'm in the midst of turning, she starts to move her car. Since I'm in the middle of the lane, I hit on the gas real quick so she doesn't hit me....

You were making a left-hand turn. You did NOT have the right of way. You cut that lady off, which is a crime in itself. You accelerated rapidly, which creates a hazardous driving environment. That is called "aggresive driving", or something to that effect, and that is also illegal. The fact that the lady waved you along, and then instead started driving (which may be because you did not move fast enough for her, and so she thought you were letting her go; either that, or she's just rude and/or moronic) does not excuse you from the blame you received. It still places the burden on YOU. Doubly so because it's a left-hand turn being initiated by you.

You got the punishment the law required. You're very lucky you did not get any further punishment, as the cop said. You're ALSO lucky you used your turn signal, otherwise she probably would have revoked your license for a period, and/or sentenced you to a driver's education class. Frankly, you could probably use a review, no offense, if you didn't understand just what you did wrong. Let me put it to you this way: had you hit her, you would have gotten in trouble. That she waved you on, and then ended up driving on anyway, has nothing to do with who would have caused the accident. By the very nature of the situation (she's moving forward, you're turning left, thereby crossing her path), she had the right of way and you did not. That means that you have to yeild to her REGARDLESS. You did not, hence why you got at least one ticket (I don't know the reasons behind each ticket; I can guess, but only you know why, as it should state on the ticket, if memory serves). That you did not hit her only HELPED your case, because if you had, you most DEFINITELY would have had your license revoked, and almost as definitely been sentenced to a driver's education course, and potentially community service as punishment.

Be furious all you want. You have every right to be mad at the lady who waved you on, if and only if she did not wait a significant length of time for you to turn before moving forward herself. Regardless, the rest (if not all) of your anger can only fall squarely on your shoulders. IF your father manages to get you off, I will, at least in part, be disappointed, because not only will you have not been punished for your wrongdoings, and not only will you miss the very important lesson that you're supposed to get out of all this (hence the whjole point behind punishment), but it will set a bad precedent for the future: when I get in trouble, daddy will fix it. Sorry, but I hate that. Always have, and always will.

I'm sure you'll be mad at ME too now, but it will be for naught. Read what I wrote, and at least attempt to derive from it the reasons behind your punishment. You asked a question, and I gave the answer, even if you don't like it or agree with it.

[Feryar]

Wow, so you have jerk cops there, too?

I think most countries do :)

They are just doing their jobs, but sometimes they choose to be anal about the way they do it.
I like having them around, though, even if they never cut me any slack.

[Roland]

Anyway, I got ticketed for the incident, which incensed me to no end. Apparent;y, since I was the one not hurt, I was at fault. Or something.

The reason you got ticketed was because you were pulling out in front of him. Again, it's a right-of-way issue. The other gentlemen (HA!) had the right of way; you turned in front of him, thus blocking his path (right of way), and so he hit you. That's why it was your fault.

Now, if you ask me, if he was speeding, you should not have been found at fault. Or, at the very least, you should not have been found SOLELY at fault. I have a friend who had a similar incident, and he ALMOST got found at fault (in addition to the other person involved, not solely), but he wasn't. The cop let him off with a warning, and a lenient one at that. Essentially what happened was my friend was making a left-hand turn (may have been a U-turn, but I can't say for sure). He saw the other guy, and he had plenty of time and room to make his turn. He took it, and ended up getting T-Boned, big time. Completely smashed in the passenger-side door (his little sister, younger by only a couple years), and sent the car reeling. The speed limit was around 25 or so; his car had some sort of impact support that worked up to 25 M.P.H. The guy was doing WELL over that (the skid marks proved this), but by the time he hit my friend, since he had slammed his breaks, he was only doing 25. My friend's sister got off VERY lucky. I forget exactly how fast he was going, but I THINK it was around 50+, and if memory serves it was in a 30 zone, or something to that effect. Regardless, this guy was FLYING over the speed limit. He was, of course, found at fault, but my friend was given a warning by the cop(s) (more like a tip / lesson than a warning) about the nature of the incident: the fact that it was a left-hand turn, etc.

Now, personally, I don't think you should have been found at fault, or at least SOLELY at fault, but I can at least understand why you were. It's a blind corner, hence the responsibility falls (once again) NOT on the driver so much as on you. Combine that with the fact that you were pulling out, thus getting within his right-of-way, and you have the reasons why you got blamed. However, given that he was speeding, and that HE hit YOU (rear-ended, no less; not even T-Boned), he should have been found at fault AT LEAST as much as you were. If he T-Boned you, I wouldn't feel quite the same, as then you truly would have been cutting him off, speeding or not. However, since that was not the case, there is absolutely NO excuse why he should not have been found at fault.

Frankly, I would have revoked the guys license for 180 days, at least, and sentenced him to a driver's education course. But that's me, and I ain't the law. Sorry to hear about your fate, in any case. Mayhap your future will not bear similar results. ;)

BTW - if you want a REAL headache, try getting pulled over because the cops think you're driving a car with stolen plates. I'll have to tell you about that story sometime. ;) It's anti-climactic, at best, as nothing happened, but I can't tell you how scared I was during that incident before they let me go. Getting accused wrongly of a crime is NO fun, but at least they didn't drag me out of my car or anything. The issue was settled before it reached that point, although it took at least half an hour. :P

[sojourn]

I don't quite get your statement on what happened:

Here's a few questions I have in mind:
When you said an old lady is in the opposite lane, does that mean the opposite side of the road (as in opposite direction), or the lane next to you? Also from the way that you said it, it seemed that the elderly woman was trying to go straight ahead (south for example) while you are trying to make a north-west turn?

Also, was there a streetlight for turning in your situation. If there was no right of way, (Left arrow sign), then you were at fault (LAWFULLY), because you are supposed to let any automobiles in the opposite direction go first, then you are allowed to go when it is cleared.

By other terms, LAWFULLY and RIGHT(as in term CORRECT) are two different things in the world of driving. You could do something that was lawfully wrong but 'right' for the situation. Take for example cutting off a few people and going over the speed limit to rush someone to the hospital.

Then again, it could be the fuzz. They seem to have nothing else better to do here in CA, since people have started correct their errors of driving more often, I'm sure the cops have lost some cash (no offense) from the loss of tickets and so. They have to pay all the traffic control, ya know :D.

[Tydon]

Well, according to my driver ed course in Washington State, hand singles are a valid way of communicating righta ways. Maybe it is different in your state, but in my state, motioning somoene to go is a legal thing to do. And Roland, saying it is his fault without knowing the laws in his state is being pretensive.

[Nystul]

Well, as Roland said, you can't go left when someone is going straight in the other direction. I can't think of any rational reason why someone would wave you through in that situation. Maybe she was brushing her hair or swatting a mosquito?

You could have gotten a warning, but those are really a roll of the dice. Maybe the way you did it looked really dangerous (it would have been a head-on collision on the lady's driver side if things had gone bad). Maybe the cop didn't really buy your story. Maybe she didn't like your attitude. Or even possibly, it could be a community like New Rome, Ohio, where nobody ever gets warnings and tickets are doled out like cheap plastic toys.

It's certainly possible to make the court date and contest the ticket. Not sure if that would be worth your while in this case or not.

[Guest]

Wow, how do you guys with 3+ tickets pay for car insurance?! I know in my state Georgia (although I goto school in flordia @ Fla State) its a state law requiring everyone to have liability, Im 20, drive an old Accord 94', white, ect. Anyhow, Iv only had 1 ticket (local cops at my hometown were really cool, I got like 4 or 5 "warnings" in highschool. lol) and my BASIC, bottom of the barrel, cheap as possible car insurace is so high im paying almost 1800 a year for that sh*t..

[Roland]

...where, ANYWHERE, making a left-hand turn in an aggressive manner is considered legal? NOW who's being pretensive?

Waving him on or not, she took the initiative to move. That forfeits ANYTHING prior, regardless of state law. So your point is moot.

[the Langolier]

I have been in a similar situation before. I was approaching the intersection and pulled into the turn lane at a green (yeild) light. I couldn't have been thinking because I just executed my turn as if I had a green arrow even though I knew better. Lucky for everyone involved the truck I was turning in front of swerved out of harms way and blasted me with his horn. I was also fortunate that no cop was around to revoke my license (which I would have deserved). Well, getting shaken by that near accident was pretty effective because I haven't done anything like that since. It would not have been pretty either, considering I was turning at 20 mph and the truck was approaching at 50 mph.

[pakman]

Personally, I haven't gotten a ticket....yet. I'm usually a safe driver, though, I admit I have somewhat of a lead foot :). However, I was with my mom once at about 1:00 am coming home from a party or something, don't quite remember what. One of our headlights had just gone out the day before and we didn't notice until that night/morning. Anyways, we were about 1/8 mile from home and a cop who has nothing better to do and is looking for some excitement to get his jollies, pulls us over. He informs us we have a headlight out, I start to say some smart ass (like, "no $h!t Sherlock") comment but my mom stops me and hands the cop the license and registration and we got a ticket. My best advice to give you when you get pulled over is say nothing. Just not and smile :)

[Tydon]

If you ever get pulled over for speeding, ask them to show you the radar, if they cannot, they can still write you a ticket, but once you take it to court, no matter what the officer says, the ticket will be taken off your record. The police officer must be able to show proof, and if they cannot, it is his word agaisnt yours, and courts do not accept that as an arguement.

[TheDragoon]

If she gave up the right-of-way via a hand signal (if that were to be the law of that state) and then started to move while he was in the intersection (now with right-of-way), how is that really his fault? Now, the aggressive driving, I can see why he got ticketed for that, but, if that were a law in his area, I do not see how he'd be at fault for the CAUSE of that situation.

[Swarmalicious]

Helpful hint #2: (in New York anyway)

When a police officer asks, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" the wisest answer is, (repeat after me) "No."

(If you confirm that you were breaking the law it can end up in a transcript that gets submitted with your ticket.)

You can of course say something like "Yes, I do sir, I assume you're struggling with some overwhelming primordial attraction to my buttocks, and though you've been in the closet thus far the mere sight of my slender muscular physique instantly broke your strained heterosexual facade so completely that you simply couldn't hold back any longer. Must be my lucky day, sweetheart."

I would advise against it however.


#3 - drive the speed limit.

[kandrathe]

That is a myth. The police officer is an expert witness to your violation. Whilst you are merely a driver. The courts will favor the expert witness over you.

[Roland]

I said it was his fault for not properly responding. Just because she supposedly waved him on does not mean he still has the right of way should she choose to move forward. Regardless, she has the right of way. That he drove aggressively was merely more fuel to the fire. That he did not stop, or even slow down, when she proceeded to move forward was where he was at fault. He did not recognize a hazardous condition, and instead of reacting properly, he reacted rashly and improperly. Thus he was punished, and rightly so. I did not say I agree with everything 100%, nor that I agree with everything at all. I merely stated the reasoning behind his punishment. There are many factors and possibilities surrounding that incident that we are not aware of, and that would / could greatly affect the outcome (i.e. the punishment, or lack thereof). Since we only have a limited amount of information (biased accounts told through an imperfect medium), I chose to lay out what I could given the information at hand.

It is quite possible that the lady was simply rolling forward, so as to be already moving by the time he cleared her path. Even so, to a cop, his continued motion would be cause for concern. That he drove aggressively rather than defensively / cautiously was probably the nail in the coffin for him. Had he not reacted the way he did, he probably wouldn't have gotten even a warning, even if he stopped dead in the middle of the road, thus blocking traffic (provided, of course, he did not block the traffic for any extended period of time ;)).

Regardless of any other factors, he drove aggressively and, under the law, he did NOT have the right of way. That she may or may not have waved him on does not give him a LEGAL right of way. It IS a compelling factor in his favor (if that is what happened; I don't disbelieve him, but I don't necessarily trust that the lady's "signal" was in fact what he took it for; I've seen people supposedly signal me, or someone else, onward only to cut them off without a second glance), but it's not concrete; it's not soundly set in legal stone. Therefore, while it may be enough to sway an officer if there was no other offense committed, it is not enough to stand up if there ARE other offenses, and in fact would turn AGAINST him in the latter case. He is, of course, welcome to contest the tickets, and he may even get off on it, but I hope at the very least he takes away the lesson of proper driving in the end. Otherwise, whether he gets off or not, he'll end up making the same mistake again. And that time, he may not get away so "Scott free".

[Mirajj]

...Insurance here in Ontario is skyrocketing. Renew rates are going up as much as 1500% percent. And no, that's not a typo. A few of the examples the local paper (North Bay Nugget and Toronto Sun) have used are people who had a minor at fault accident, or a speeding ticket or two. The average tends to be a growth from the previous year at $1500 going up to $5000+! I realize that those are some of the more extreme cases, but it shows that rates are getting out of control. You can't even find a new carrier, without major problems. One fellow Had his insurance jump up roughly $3000 to end up at $4400. He went shopping around and the lowest rate he could find (for bare bones insurance) was $2500, with a warning that if he made a CLAIM in the first year, they would NOT renew him. Ouch. Makes me glad I no longer drive, and use the heel-toe express, and my bike.

As to sucky cops...my Soon-to-be-ex-wife and I were an accident a couple years ago. I slid on a icy road and went nosefirst into a tree. My wife's head hit the windshield hard enough to crack it. After the cop came, he was more concerned about the damage to the TREE than he was to either my ex or I. It had some bark scraped off of it. I couldn't believe it. I realize that cops are people too, and have sucky days like anyone else, but occasionally, one has to wonder, eh.