China's space walk a fake?

[Crusader]

A video I came across. Has China faked it's own space walk?
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/398111/e06...te_geweest.html

[Jester]

No.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

No.

Unfortunately your "no" link only offers opinion, and little evidence. I wouldn't put it past officials in Beijing to use technology to dupe the masses. There are multiple points to the allegations, alleged bubbles, reflections of light banks, position of Earth, speed of clouds, lack of free floating, etc. I will remain skeptical. I'm not sure what difference it makes, other than to discredit the Chinese government.

[Tal]

See the debris blowing out? The article claims these are bubbles! That’s really silly. It’s obviously debris from inside the craft. Again, an unnamed blogger says that if this were filmed underwater, the bubbles rose too fast. The authors claim it’s possible a fan blew them.

Thats hardly a compelling counter argument. Though I do admit to not being a fan of the "nuh uh" defense. <_<

[Crusader]

And then there's the bubble rising from under the helmet.

[Bun-Bun]

Unfortunately your "no" link only offers opinion, and little evidence. I wouldn't put it past officials in Beijing to use technology to dupe the masses. There are multiple points to the allegations, alleged bubbles, reflections of light banks, position of Earth, speed of clouds, lack of free floating, etc. I will remain skeptical. I'm not sure what difference it makes, other than to discredit the Chinese government.

No, it offers reasoned refutation of extraordinary claims most of which are ridiculous on their face. The video presents a spaghetti-on-the-wall barrage of accusations typical of whackjob hoax conspiracy.

Edit: typo!

[Jester]

Unfortunately your "no" link only offers opinion, and little evidence. I wouldn't put it past officials in Beijing to use technology to dupe the masses. There are multiple points to the allegations, alleged bubbles, reflections of light banks, position of Earth, speed of clouds, lack of free floating, etc. I will remain skeptical. I'm not sure what difference it makes, other than to discredit the Chinese government.

It offers the opinion of a professional astronomer whose specialty is ridiculous conspiracy theories like this one.

Measure it against your own as you like.

-Jester

Further Discussion

[NicksLP]

It doesn't make sense, why would China do this? Maybe they are just following a trend?

They obviously aren't the first to do something like this. But the real question is, if it is a fake, then why create the lie in the first place? How would that actually effect the masses in any type of influential manner?

It doesn't make sense!

[kandrathe]

No, it offers reasoned refutation of extraordinary claims most of which are ridiculous on their face. The video presents a spaghetti-on-the-wall barrage of accusations typical of whackjob hoax consipracy.

Actually, it was an intellectual scoff. More like someone saying, "Nuh uh". And I would ask myself does an astronomer have more to lose by going along with the status quo(debunking the proposition of forgery), or would this astronomer lose more face by also being skeptical? I think the questions raised are actually legitimate, and it may be unfortunate that the entire flight is under a cloud of suspicion due to the early release of news of the successful mission before it took off, and by the release of the transcripts of the mission before they were actually uttered.

Jester's second post offers a more reasoned approach, and still levels an adequate amount of skepticism. I still can keep an open mind to entertain a healthy skepticism, but mostly I don't really care too much one way or another. It would not surprise me that the Chinese government would try to "propagandize" their successful space mission. Even if it did go as planned, they might still publish the forgery for many reasons.

[kandrathe]

It doesn't make sense, why would China do this? Maybe they are just following a trend?

They obviously aren't the first to do something like this. But the real question is, if it is a fake, then why create the lie in the first place? How would that actually effect the masses in any type of influential manner?

It doesn't make sense!

The foremost reason would be to tightly control the flow of information. If the flight goes well, then its good news. If the flight does not go well, then hey, its still good news. The important thing is that China is seen by the Chinese people as being the greatest nation on the planet.

China, as evidenced by the Olympics, takes special pains to make everything "look" perfect. Most people here in the USA don't understand the kind of nationalism that is engendered in a nation with history back to the 15th century BCE. I think they are pretty tired of being upstaged by a migrating band of barbarians from Europe, or their ages old barbarian nemesis from the northern steppes.

[Jester]

I think they are pretty tired of being upstaged by a migrating band of barbarians from Europe, or their ages old barbarian nemesis from the northern steppes.

They're tired of being upstaged by the Mongolians?

-Jester

[Lissa]

They're tired of being upstaged by the Mongolians?

-Jester

Yes, as Bao Xishun is Mongolian and considered the tallest man in China... :whistling:

[Crusader]

I think they are pretty tired of being upstaged by a migrating band of barbarians from Europe, or their ages old barbarian nemesis from the northern steppes.

Oooga! We barbs now making Fusion power! Ooogaaaah! you stooopiiiiiiiiiiid!

[kandrathe]

They're tired of being upstaged by the Mongolians?

>sigh< Mongols... Have you ever heard of the Manchus? Seljuk? Turks? Scythians? Huns? Avars? Parthians? Sarmatians? Not to mention the eventual conquering of the area by Russian Empire?

[shoju]

I watched the video, I downloaded an unaltered version of the video and watched it in my video editing software.


Personal Opinion? FAKE. Those do seem to be bubbles, there is no distortion to the video, the audio that is present is more sound studio than space quality, and yes. Those do appear to be Stadium Lights reflected off the mirrors and not light banks like what you would see on a normal shuttle.

Why? China has to appear to be at least keeping up with the jone's of the world, to it's people. The only reason a population of close to 2b people don't revolt is because they see that it works. Nevermind that we on the outside know that the machine is old, corrupt, and falling apart. It works on the inside, and that's what is important.

[Jester]

>sigh< Mongols... Have you ever heard of the Manchus? Seljuk? Turks? Scythians? Huns? Avars? Parthians? Sarmatians? Not to mention the eventual conquering of the area by Russian Empire?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. And duh.

The Manchurians are incorporated into modern China. Are they going to space to show up their age old enemy, themselves? I think not.

The Seljuks, Scythians, Parthians, Sarmatians and Avars are all to the west, not the north. "Turks" is a gigantic linguistic group, members of which were north of China, but most of which weren't.

If you say the "ages old barbarian nemesis from the northern steppes," you pretty much mean the Mongols, or at a stretch, the Huns. However, since there are no more Huns, that leaves the Mongols.

The Russians are Slavic agriculturalists with a hint of Scandanavian thrown in. They are neither migrating Europeans (in the sense of moving towards China, anyway) nor are they nomadic barbarians.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

You know what I meant, so it is silly to play the "obtuse" game.

Council on Foreign Relations - Nationalism in China

"As the International Herald Tribune noted in an April 2008 editorial, stripped of Maoism as its guiding light, the CCP frequently has fallen back on nationalism as societal glue."

So much so that the CCP is actively censoring anyone who questions the "official" doctoring of the glorious Chinese history. Look up the Chinese version of the Boxer rebellion to see the bias that is taught to every boy, and girl in China. A fundamental plank in the red book, which is still central to the CCP's control on power is to implant a paranoia about foreigners into the minds of the people. Also be sure to read, "People of the World, Unite and Defeat the U.S. Aggressors and All Their Lackeys" by Mao Tse-tung.

[Jester]

You know what I meant, so it is silly to play the "obtuse" game.

Hey, I was just jokin' around. Obviously you meant the Russians, but it's funnier if you meant the Mongolians. Then you started throwing horse peoples around. :wacko:

-Jester

[Hammerskjold]

It doesn't make sense, why would China do this? Maybe they are just following a trend?

Maybe. Or, maybe they see a potential opportunity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2006/..._3_by_2024.html

Granted, this is still a fairly long way to building a mining base on the Moon, and Helium-3 is not a proven energy source.

But give it some time and money. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, intergalactic space wars will be fought over this fuel. Of course they'll be fought with giant robot warriors, on robot horseback, cyber-Mongol style!

Artist conception here, http://www.boingboing.net/images/lg_unicornsinspace.jpg
sadly no robot Mongol warriors astride space unicorns, but the basic gist is there.

[kandrathe]

Hey, I was just jokin' around. Obviously you meant the Russians, but it's funnier if you meant the Mongolians. Then you started throwing horse peoples around.

I'm still convinced learning Mandarin would not be a waste of time.