Question about D2 Loader

[Stormbringer]

Hi Guys
I don''t use hacks in diablo 2 ( like hackit or maphack, or any kind of editor), but i use d2 loader because i don't like the "d2 cd trading".
Can i lose my acount on b.net ( or my cd key) because im using it????
Please, i need to know it.
Thank's for the help.
:(

[Taem]

Why doesn’t anyone ever read the FAQ on this site? I'm pretty sure if you did, you'd understand there is a zero tolerance rule on cheating, and since Blizzard considers ALL 3rd party programs to be cheats, you are cheating! Sure, all it does is allow you to play from your hard-drive and stop the Win-Key from interfering with the game, but for some reason Blizzard considers it a cheat and I'm sure this site would also (although then again, D2 Accelerator would also be considered a cheat now, wouldn't it).

But that brings me to an interesting point I was pondering just the other day... If you can legally have a back-up copy of media for personal use, such as movies and music, wouldn't this extend to video games? And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless? I'm not sure of the law in the area, but it seems like it could be argued in court in favor of the user, IMO.

[Feryar]

I don't think they'd go after people who use it, but you always run the risk of them thinking it is something else. Whatever method they use to detect maphack or bots or whatever might be triggered by it if you're unlucky.

To be on the safe side I'd advice you to:
Do a full install and copy any .mpq files that are not on the HD into the diablo directory where the other .mpq files are. Now you only need the CD to start the game.

[Feryar]

Why doesn’t anyone ever read the FAQ on this site?  I'm pretty sure if you did, you'd understand there is a zero tolerance rule on cheating, and since Blizzard considers ALL 3rd party programs to be cheats, you are cheating!  Sure, all it does is allow you to play from your hard-drive and stop the Win-Key from interfering with the game, but for some reason Blizzard considers it a cheat and I'm sure this site would also (although then again, D2 Accelerator would also be considered a cheat now, wouldn't it).

But that brings me to an interesting point I was pondering just the other day...  If you can legally have a back-up copy of media for personal use, such as movies and music, wouldn't this extend to video games?  And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless?  I'm not sure of the law in the area, but it seems like it could be argued in court in favor of the user, IMO.

But that brings me to an interesting point I was pondering just the other day... If you can legally have a back-up copy of media for personal use, such as movies and music, wouldn't this extend to video games? And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless? I'm not sure of the law in the area, but it seems like it could be argued in court in favor of the user, IMO.

Well, it really isn't difficult to make an exact copy of the original CD so that the game still thinks it's the original CD :)

I think it's worse when they try to put a "copy-protection" on music CDs to stop people from ripping them, and the only thing they end up doing is making it impossible to play them in CD-ROMs and even in some cars. Out of the last 10 CDs I've bought I have been unable to play 3 of them on my PC. That kind of sucks because I don't own a CD player, I have hooked my PC directly to my speakers.
The only solution to that problem was to return the CDs and then download the music and burn it. I guess they kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one :(

[Dagni]

Can you? Yes, I imagine so. Will you? No, almost certainly not. Of course, the 'almost' might be enough reason to get rid of D2 loader. But on the other hand, if they warned maphack users before taking action, it stands to reason they would warn much less blatant offenders beforehand as well.

Also, I remember reading somewhere GF or Isolde being quoted as saying that D2 accelerator was not considered a cheat, or just that they wouldn't be taking action against it or something. I would guess that D2 loader is likely in the same boat. Although I guess since Blizzard doesn't want anything to circumvent the need for the original CD, maybe that would make d2 loader something they would frown upon more than d2 accelerator.

- Dagni

[Baajikiil]

(although then again, D2 Accelerator would also be considered a cheat now, wouldn't it).

From Isolde 4/4/03

However, your D2 Accelerator in its current form (or any previous form for that matter) will not trigger the hack detection. Nor does anyone at blizzard consider it to be a cheat.

This statement leads most LL members to believe that D2 Accelerator is an exception to the "All 3rd party program" rule.

Though their detection method may change and somehow pick up D2 Accelerator, come 1.10.

[NkToth]

But that brings me to an interesting point I was pondering just the other day...  If you can legally have a back-up copy of media for personal use, such as movies and music, wouldn't this extend to video games?  And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless?  I'm not sure of the law in the area, but it seems like it could be argued in court in favor of the user, IMO.

Because you are only licensed to use software - you do not own it. When you click the install agreement buried in there is the 'I will not copy or alter this program'. Whatever the good or bad consequences of this are, it is necessary in some form. If you owned the software, you could alter it and give it away all you liked - much like you could with a desk or a car. The fact that you can do this multiple times is where the trouble comes from - through both ignorance and malice, rampant software copying (and now music copying) has gone on, and corporations have become draconian in response to it. So when you click through you agree to whatever terms they've set - whether it's using CD's, no backups, or even that they're allowed to search your computer and disable software/music they don't think you have the rights to (Not Blizzard per se, but this part of the plan with Paladium that would be available to any software/music provider).

As for this specific program, I think Blizzard would disable it if they recognize it since it makes it possible to not even have the CD. I'm not familiar enough with it to know for certain, though. I have heard of the possibility of storing an image of the CD and mounting that, and getting the system to use that, which might be harder to detect. (If this is what it does, than someone please clarify.)

As for if this is a "cheat", I'd say no - it doesn't give an advantage so much as it might remove a possible disadvantage by ensuring a proper playing speed. (Again, if I understand it correctly.)

[Zoid]

As for this specific program, I think Blizzard would disable it if they recognize it since it makes it possible to not even have the CD.

The problem is, you already have a CD-Key. Why do we need the CD-check when you have a CD-Key? It's not like you can play on battle.net without a the CD-Key. The CD-Check is redundant.

When I was working at id, we shipped Quake3 so it only did a CD-Check in single player. There was no disc check in multiplayer because you needed a CD-Key to play multiplayer. I wish Diablo II operated the same way.

I personally hate disc checks. They make the game take too long to start and I have HUNDREDS of CDs (I'm a game fanatic) so half the time getting a disc out takes forever.

[NkToth]

The only solution to that problem was to return the CDs and then download the music and burn it. I guess they kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one  :(

Actually, this is stealing. If you disagree with the conditions to own music, you should do without. By illegally downloading it all you do is support their 'rampant piracy' argument. Think of it this way - I have a stand where I sell the best chocolate pies ever (or whatever you really like; work with me). The price of the pie is $10 and I get to hit you in the head with a hammer. You can either take the pie and the hit, or not have any pie. But if you take it without paying and getting hit then that is stealing, and you're only defense is 'I wanted the pie but since I didn't like what I'd have to do for it I stole it.' (As for if it's legal to write a contract that stipulates an intention to injure, I'm pretty sure boxing contracts would be said to include that. Yes this example is extreme, but it makes the point.)

The best way to handle this is to first return the music as defective and not legally a CD, and be loud about why. Eventually Best Buy or whomever will get tired of the returns and step in; they are a corporation after all. Second, ask others to boycott the artist/label as well, including concerts, fan-sites, etc. Third, when the bill to prevent this kind of unlabeled protection is introduced in Congress, write your representative. (Apology for assuming a US view, but others can apply this to their governmental process as appropriate.)

If you must have the music (for whatever reason), it is still technically legal to buy the CD, then download the music in a form you wish to use. Once you have the CD moving it to any form for personal use is covered by fair use. How you get it into that other form is irrelevant.

I buy under 10 CD's a year. Originally I was protesting their outrageous costs (once it's been out for 2 years, the 'promotion' and 'production' costs are covered, so $14 is ridiculous). Now, they've made the stakes higher.

[Taem]

Hail Dagi,

Can you? Yes, I imagine so. Will you? No, almost certainly not. Of course, the 'almost' might be enough reason to get rid of D2 loader. But on the other hand, if they warned maphack users before taking action, it stands to reason they would warn much less blatant offenders beforehand as well.

You most certainly WILL! Lets just say I PERSONALLY (get my drift) know someone who used ONLY D2Loader because his DVD Rom played CD's at 14x and when music or high graphic scenes loaded up, the ROM drive didn't even start spinning until after 10 (yes TEN) seconds later, and once the scene actually got loaded up, he dropped OR was dead - very deadly in hardcore! The fact that you are required to have a CD-Key which makes having the CD in the drive pointless really upsets this person since he lost 3 accounts over it!

Case and point: Don't use any 3rd party programs, not matter how innocuous they may be!

[Feryar]

If I wanted that pie, I'd go home and look up a pie-recipe on the internet and then make my own pie :P

If I pay fullprize for a CD then I want a the whole package. I want a pressed CD and not something that came out of a burner. I'm not prepared to pay full prize for a product that is of lower quality, especially not when full prize is so horrible high. You think $14 is a lot? In Norway they cost from $18-$24 depending on wether you get "low-price" or not. Most of the stuff I buy is not mainstream enough to be "low priced".
If I could pay a lower price in exchange for the right to download it from the label and then burn it myself then I'd be happy with that. I've already mailed them and told them so.

In the meantime I'm downloading those albums that it is impossible for me to listen to from the original CD. If they want to sue me for that then they know where to find me.
It's been 5 months and no word from the label though, so either they don't read their mail or they just didn't care.

[keenduck]

Actually, this is stealing.

Actually, it's a intellectual property violation, not theft. Stealing an object means depriving someone of their legitimate use of that object. When you steal a CD from a store, the store has lost the use of the CD (they can't sell it anymore). When you download music, you're violating copyright, but no one has lost the use of their property. You can argue that you're denying the artist the right to sell his/her work, but that's what copyright covers. ;)

[Bob]

But that brings me to an interesting point I was pondering just the other day... If you can legally have a back-up copy of media for personal use, such as movies and music, wouldn't this extend to video games? And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless? I'm not sure of the law in the area, but it seems like it could be argued in court in favor of the user, IMO.

I'm sure it varies from country to country, but my understanding of the law in the UK is that with any media of that sort, one is entitled to make 1 back-up copy for personal usage, of the few EULA's tht I've studied in detail, I remember a point sticking out about being allowed to keep one copy as a backup. Although IIRC this was actually on an office-y application rather than a game, I can't see it being different. Also, my understanding of this is that the backup may be on any media you wish, floppy disk, tape or, indeed your hard drive.

And if this were so, wouldn't it be illegal to require the use of the CD in the CD-Drive to play the game, since any copies would then be rendered useless without the original CD in the drive, thus making copies for personal use useless?

eh? I'm very confused, I'll assume that your saying that it would be illegal to make it impossible to make a working copy. To which I have no reply
Or, are you saying that making people use a disk therefore makes it pointless keeping a copy? no, unless you're a D2 addict and the disk's 'case' is your CD drive, it's quite worthwhile to make a copy of your disk, keep the original safely in its case, and play from the copy, thus when that wears out, you no longer have a backup and can make a new one to play from, saving you having to replace damaged disks, which can be costly. (how I wish I'd done that before I scratched my D2x disk last november). The part about a back-up doesn't usually stipulate which one you have to keep as the backup.

Of course the old-ish addage still applies: "you don't sue poor people" - unless you are using a method of keeping the data on a comp to play without owning a CD, and are doing it on a big scale, blizz are unlikely to give 2 hoots. Note i said unlikely, not won't. However, I've never heard them complaining about people copying their D1 CD's to HD to faster loading.

original poster:
are you playing classic? with the expansion, you can install all the files you need on your hard disk and only have the CD in the drive to play the game (and it loads the music, but the disk's in the drive anyway). I was under the impression a similar system existed with classic. Someone who actually played classic? can you confirm/deny?

Also, would I be correct in guessing that if one has 2 CD drives and keeps each disk in a drive at once, then the game will just look for the drive with the disk it wants - thus someone with 2 drives has an unfair advantage over someone with 1, this really just balances people out - particulalry in the area of WP-load PK'ing (do people do that in classic? [if indeed you are playing classic])

wait... this has created more questions than it has answered. :blink:

-Bob

[protoshoggoth]

Sure, all it does is allow you to play from your hard-drive and stop the Win-Key from interfering with the game

This is interesting. I use a program that disables the windows keys on my keyboard. I don't just use it for D2, it's in my startup folder, but still...I'm arguably at an advantage compared to those poor slobs that might at any second hit the windows key and minimize the game. Am I a cheater? It is a 'third party' program, afterall.

[Kharohz]

I stand by Zoid.

If you have the cdkeys, why bother with CDs. Seriously.

CDROM's bog load time down big time, same for performance. Diablo2 1.10 should do what good ole quake2 3.20 patch did (Correct me if im wrong about the patch number ;)) remove cd-check.

Long live ID and epic megagames. (No idea if UT2003 followed UT's non-cd-check path though)

[LavCat]

This is interesting.  I use a program that disables the windows keys on my keyboard.  I don't just use it for D2, it's in my startup folder, but still...I'm arguably at an advantage compared to those poor slobs that might at any second hit the windows key and minimize the game.  Am I a cheater?  It is a 'third party' program, afterall.

I am about to make a confession that may get me banned...from microsoft.com, if not from lurkerlounge:

I use non-Windows keyboards.

This is a horrid cheat and I am somewhat ashamed (but not nearly enough to die from a keyboard that has a Windows key). Further (at the risk of getting this post edited by an admin) this cheat is available from jameco.com and probably other hacker sites.

[Feryar]

Well... I've ripped my windows key off and poured some kind of glue into the whole. Maybe Gates will come after me for destroying his "property" ;)

[NkToth]

Actually, it's a intellectual property violation, not theft. Stealing an object means depriving someone of their legitimate use of that object.  When you steal a CD from a store, the store has lost the use of the CD (they can't sell it anymore). When you download music, you're violating copyright, but no one has lost the use of their property. You can argue that you're denying the artist the right to sell his/her work, but that's what copyright covers.  ;)

Technically, you are correct, I should have worded that better. Media companies are blurring the definition of stealing, and I got caught up in it. As for 'lost the use', they argue that they can't use their intellectual property to make money if people are trading it willy-nilly.

To clarify the point I was trying to make, it is currently illegal to obtain the copy-written material without paying for the rights to use it, whether it's via buying the CD or some other method. There are two choices: do without, pay for it, or obtain illegally. If the price (read: copy protection) is too high, then you are down to two choices. (As for the one response about even higher CD prices, a) I actually want Pink Floyd CD's which are around ~$30, and b ) higher prices elsewhere just show how much more those areas are willing to take.) However you look at it, it's a huge mess. Personally, I think we should start learning musical instruments and bring back 100-year old music that copyrights have expired on. That'll show 'em. :)

To bring this back closer on topic, a CD-key is not necessarily a guarantee. You can share your key with someone you trust, and as long as you never play at the same time you won't get caught. In fact, do they check those across realms simultaneously? I have a feeling they don't, but no way to check. Furthermore, if you turn the music off do you still need the CD? I remember being able to eject Starcraft after launch if the music was off; I've never tried it with Diablo.