Is Backing-Up Chars Duping?

[Rejections]

Two friends of mine are trying to decide if Backing-up is a way or cheating. One of them is, one of them isn't. It isn't really duping because your loading your character from the previous game, just as you would in SP. But also, it wasn't really intended for the game itself. So the 3 of us are trying to figure it out. And I wanted to hear it from multiple people. Any thoughts?

[--Pete]

Hi,

Two friends of mine are trying to decide if Backing-up is a way or cheating.

Backing up is never a way of cheating. How you restore may be.

If the only time you'll restore is because of a system level problem (e.g., hard drive crash) then, no, it is not cheating. If you'll restore to recover gear that you couldn't recover after dieing in game, then yes, it is cheating. And if you'll restore to duplicate items, then not only is it cheating, you have no business being within a light-year of the Lurker Lounge.

So, it is up to you. If you've got the integrity to play without cheating, then back up to your heart's content. Treat your save files as you would any valuable data. If you can't trust yourself not to cheat, then backing up will make no difference -- even without backups, you'll find some way.

It's not the technology, it's what you do with it that matters.

--Pete

[TheKingofKewl]

Scroll down for a more direct response from me:
--------------------------------------------

Its a good question, and since you asked for multiple opinions I may as well offer mine. Years ago, when Diablo was a popular place to be online I never knew how to backup my character and so I never did.

My first character was lvl 41 before he retired and I never knew how to back him up. My next got to level 36 and I knew how to back him up but I lost the file and my friend lost the extra of it I gave him.

I'm now on my 3rd warrior, also level 36. I backed him up on my mom's computer and will eventually on mine. But to answer your question, I don't think of it as cheating so long as your not using it to dupe items and make multiple copies or continously abusing it. I kept mine backed up to have it on file encase of hard drive failure, accidently erasure, that sort of thing. I used it once while experiementing my character in Hell/Hell and my character died and I had no time to recover cause my drive for work was going. Other conditions I find to be exceptable are power failures during recovery and latency kicking you out. If your dying often and backing up your character then probably yes its cheating. However in DII they made it so you just had to click on your body to recover, even if you left the game to go to another. So if you were in a hurry or couldn't recover you could get in next game. If its not cheating there why would it be cheating in old D1 where they never thought of implementing it or had the technical opinons? I may get flammed for it but its just 'my opinion.' And if I've cheated, I've only done so once, as mentioned above.

Diablo, like other games features items that are extremely rare. In Diablo one there are items like obs/zod that are nearly impossible to find again and Holy/mammal shields.
_________________________________________________________

No - as long as your respectful of how to use it.

Two friends of mine are trying to decide if Backing-up is a way or cheating. One of them is, one of them isn't. It isn't really duping because your loading your character from the previous game, just as you would in SP. But also, it wasn't really intended for the game itself. So the 3 of us are trying to figure it out. And I wanted to hear it from multiple people. Any thoughts?

[--Pete]

Hi,

Thank you for providing some illuminating examples.

My next got to level 36 and I knew how to back him up but I lost the file and my friend lost the extra of it I gave him.

This is what the cops call "suspicious behavior". While giving a copy of your character file to a friend is not cheating, I cannot think of anything, other than just holding it for you, that your friend could do with that file that is not cheating. In my opinion, helping someone cheat is cheating.

But to answer your question, I don't think of it as cheating so long as your not using it to dupe items . . .

Right.

. . . and make multiple copies . . .

Copies of the item(s) or of the file? If the first, you've already said it; no duping. If the second, it doesn't matter. One copy of the backup or a million, it doesn't matter. If you use it to cheat, you're cheating. If not, then you're not.

. . . or continously abusing it.

If by "abusing it" you mean "use it to cheat", then you've got a tautology -- true but boring. Otherwise, I can't figure out what you mean.

I kept mine backed up to have it on file encase of hard drive failure, accidently erasure, that sort of thing.

Valid.

I used it once while experiementing my character in Hell/Hell and my character died and I had no time to recover cause my drive for work was going.

I would call that cheating. You should not put yourself in that position, but if you do, you should just suck it up and thank the Diablo gods for the lesson in thinking ahead. On the other hand, if all you've had is three characters in their thirties, the loss of one might seem disastrous. There are many here who can, and have, built a character to that level in a weekend. And occasionally do so just for test purposes.

Other conditions I find to be exceptable are power failures during recovery and latency kicking you out.

I agree -- situation not in your control and not related to your gaming abilities.

If your dying often and backing up your character then probably yes its cheating.

Not necessarily. You could be dying often because you are trying something hard. You could be backing up because your machine is flaky, because you have a 'tight' backup strategy, or because you're paranoid. But if you are only restoring to recover from system problems (power glitches, latency boots, lost connection, etc.) then you still aren't cheating.

However in DII they made it so you just had to click on your body to recover, even if you left the game to go to another. So if you were in a hurry or couldn't recover you could get in next game. If its not cheating there why would it be cheating in old D1 where they never thought of implementing it or had the technical opinons?

Gee, let me think. Maybe because CD and DII are TWO DIFFERENT GAMES???? Hell, in Mario, when you run out of lives, you have to start over. So according to your reasoning, hard core is the only legit way to play :P

No - as long as your respectful of how to use it.

Ah, well that covers it. Only . . . how do *you* define 'respect'.

--Pete

PS Please use a spell checker on your posts, it makes it easier for those of us who do. If you are using Internet Explorer as your browser, then ieSpell is a great little program and it's free. And by the way, spell checking my posts is part of how I define 'respect' on fora.

[TheKingofKewl]

scrolls.

[FireIceTalon]

It would only be duping if you are backing up the items on the file alone rather then file itself, or if you restore a char and xfer items over to another char then restore the original of the previous char so you have two totally different chars with the same item(s). Both of these scenerios would be cheating, but would be rather pointless as there are much easier and quicker ways to cheat. And if you cheat, why bother playing, right?

All in all backing up is perfectly fine as long as you ONLY restore in the following situations:

1. An item you drop or try to equip and/or pick up lags out. This happens quite often. There was a time when i didnt back up and I lost a few really nice items this way. Its common nowadays for lag to eat items, especially in games with 3-4 players.

2. If you had items on the ground and the game suddenly times out and drops, restoring is justififed in my opinion.

3. If you soloing and you forget you have spare items in town but accidently kill diablo or hit new game, I think restoring here would be acceptable as well. Or if you are in a game with someone and are xfering but then lat becomes to high for you to re-enter and they cannot carry your items, restoring here I believe would be acceptable also.

In all other situations, I see it being controversial at best and in many, it would be cheating...the most obvious being if you die from monsters and cant get your gear back. Selling your items to Gris or Adria then changing your mind later on, I believe restoring here would be cheating as well. If you have any doubts, dont sell them!

[--Pete]

Hi,

I can't see anything I wrote being that ineligible.

When I, because I care for my fellow Lurkers, check my spelling, your indifference, because you don't give a damn about anyone but yourself, causes the spell checker to stop six or seven times in one post wasting my time.

for record I was in hell/hell fighting cave vipers. Fighting 3 at a time and doing just find. When I was in a rush to go I flung myself into a group of them to test how long he'd last.

That's an excuse, not a justification. You chose a course of action, then decided you didn't want the consequences of your choice.

In Baldur's Gate you can have a party of six, have one die permantly, and go on beating the game with just five members. Or you can reload and learn from it and go on. Yes, different game altogether. And yes, you view it as cheating, and maybe so.

No, I don't view that as cheating in Baldur's Gate. The point is that different games have different rules. So, dragging out yet another example that allows reloading has no relevance to what you should or shouldn't do in CD.

Congratulations, you've won the trifecta: "my spelling is fine"; "it wasn't really cheating"; "but it's fair in other games". I hope you *are" a whiny twelve year old, because that is exactly how you've come across.

--Pete

[TheKingofKewl]

Diablo is great.

[LennyLen]

Then don't read my posts Pete. No one is forcing you to.

Nobody is forcing us, but the purpose of a forum is communication, so if you can make yourself more well understood, then all the better. It only takes a second or two to check if words are spelt correctly. And while there's no rule or law that says you have to, it's a matter of respect.

Would you find it proper for me to call you a grumpy old man?

Well, he is a curmudgeon, after all. And being old is a relative matter.


Oh, and I'm not just arguing for pete's sake (pun intended). Pete and I have had our differences in the past. Though, I'm old enough to have forgotten what they are, and he probably has too. But in this case I have to agree fully with his side of the matter. backing up because you feel you've taken on something too hard while you have other matters to attend to is... well, cheating.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Pete and I have had our differences in the past. Though, I'm old enough to have forgotten what they are, and he probably has too.

We've had differences? :whistling:I don't even remember that, much less over what. :D

This is getting too off topic and too personal, so I'm outta here.

Take care,

--Pete

[TheKingofKewl]

Nobody is forcing us, but the purpose of a forum is communication, so if you can make yourself more well understood, then all the better. It only takes a second or two to check if words are spelt correctly. And while there's no rule or law that says you have to, it's a matter of respect.

Point of the matter wasn't respect, I have no problems with using a spell checker had he had the curtiousy of using a polite tone. Pete made sure all his comments were snide and ignorant and I don't have any tolerence for it. And you know if I would have been the one to say he was a whiny twelve year old I would have been flamed for it like in the past, Pete however gets nothing, go figure.

Well, he is a curmudgeon, after all. And being old is a relative matter.
Oh, and I'm not just arguing for pete's sake (pun intended). Pete and I have had our differences in the past. Though, I'm old enough to have forgotten what they are, and he probably has too. But in this case I have to agree fully with his side of the matter. backing up because you feel you've taken on something too hard while you have other matters to attend to is... well, cheating.

As I explained, I was testing livibility of the character in that domain on that difficulty. Jarulf for example makes a 30th level character tests how much damage is done, gives his character 250 life is he now cheating? No, he's testing. It had nothing to do with my gameplay, I wasn't even defending myself. And I've talked to quite a few people, and most have found it not to be cheating. And I perfectly capable of retriveving my gear from powerful melee monsters, lure them away from your gear and head back, stone curse them as needed. With ranged attackers more difficult, and I sometimes die once or twice before getting 100% of my gear back but I do. When my website is up I will look into creating a video showing players that don't know how. I will as well look into a spell checker tomorrow.

Anyway, as I said before, closed for discussion. I don't care if you want to further debate the question of the poster in this thread its your right, just leave me out of it please.

[--Pete]

Deleted -- not worth it

[TheKingofKewl]

I want to come back to this one last time, because I feel it’s owed, before deletion.

I feel now I misunderstood Pete's original reply to my post, and being easily prone to anger at times I misrepresented that as an attack. This drew me to an aggressive/defensive response which came across a poorly. In this case I've seen myself as more of accidently instigator, so I apologize.

To be clearer on my views:

Backing up for hard drive failures, power failures is all okay. When I have died in the past due to monsters, I have either called for help from an outside player I was unable to retrieve it, retrieved it myself, or took it. I have sucked it up and taken the loss before, not always were I able to retrieve my items, and was forced to take unenchanted items and start in easy areas. This is actually kind of fun, rebuilding to an extent, as long as nothing major was lost.

So when I checked to see how long it would take my character to die in hell/hell, I didn't feel I was ready to make that area my zone to hang out. My comfort zone for this character was and still is Nightmare/Hell and Hell/Cave. My drive was leaving to work in 5 minutes so at the time I didn't take the situation seriously; it was a quick moment of curiosity.

So, yes, its cheating to back up your character if its due to loosing your items to monsters. Though in honesty, if I lost my stuff to monsters at this point, I don't know if I could suck it up, I might end up walking away for a while. Investing a lot in your character is difficult to walk away from. And perhaps I made a poor choice before, though I take some comfort in it not being game play related.

This one is to you Pete. I don't want us to get off on the wrong foot. I'm going to try and get the spell checker today, for now I'll run it through Word.


-King

Deleted -- not worth it

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm glad I deleted my last post.

In this case I've seen myself as more of accidently instigator, so I apologize.

Accepted, thank you. My first post was not an attack, just an analysis.

To be clearer on my views:

It's already glue.

This one is to you Pete. I don't want us to get off on the wrong foot.

Don't worry about it. Often needing it myself, I'm pretty free with the whole 'forget and forgive' concept.

I'm going to try and get the spell checker today, for now I'll run it through Word.

Thank you from all the others of us who use a spell checker.

--Pete

[Selby]

I used to get seriously involved in these discussions, but now basically if I don't use any trainers, only transfer found items between characters of my own, and don't exploit any serious flaws in the game's design\implementation, then I don't worry about it. I have backups of about 45 characters from over the last 10 years, my "main" characters and a ton of variants I have played up and didn't want to delete just for the memories.