The world has gone insane

[kandrathe]

New York Parents Fined for Daughter's Chalk Drawings on Stoop

Saturday, October 13, 2007


NEW YORK — Chalk it up to the city's crackdown on graffiti.

A 6-year-old child's chalk sketches on her family's stoop brought her bemused parents a graffiti-removal notice that threatened a $300 fine, the family and Sanitation Department officials said.

"My mom got a ticket for graffiti, and it wasn't even graffiti," first-grader Natalie Shea said. "It was art, very nice art."

But a neighbor apparently didn't see it that way and called the city's 311 complaint line about the blue flower drawn earlier this month on the stoop of Natalie's home in Park Slope, a Brooklyn neighborhood known for being family-friendly.

The notice that arrived Oct. 5 — giving the family 45 days to clean up the "graffiti" — was a form letter sent in response to all such complaints, city Sanitation Department spokeswoman Kathy Dawkins said.

"If people call and complain, we have to follow it up," she said, but noted that the agency "does not consider a child's chalk drawing to be graffiti."

Nor does City Councilman Peter Vallone, who spearheaded a 2005 city law that requires property owners to get rid of graffiti.

"It was never the intent of my law to capture chalk drawings on the sidewalk," he said.

Natalie's mother, Jen Pepperman, said she would wash off the girl's doodles more promptly in future. As for the offending flower, it was erased Thursday by a heavy rain.

Something is wrong. Something is seriously wrong with our culture.

[Treesh]

Something is wrong. Something is seriously wrong with our culture.

:blink:Wow. Just, wow. And not a good wow. :wacko:

[Munkay]

Something is wrong. Something is seriously wrong with our culture.

Although I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, I think that's an uncalled for reaction to that news story. A blanket letter was sent in response to a complaint by a neighbor about it. With the level of bureaucracy in most towns, a simple complaint can illicit a quick blanket response like the removal notice the family received.

With that said, if the family was actually fined, or the city admitted they reviewed the situation onsite, and then threatened a fine, then I'd be singing a different tune.

The culture is sick, but i'm not sure this is a paradigm symptom.

Cheers,

Munk

[Klaus]

Although I don't necessarily disagree with that statement, I think that's an uncalled for reaction to that news story. A blanket letter was sent in response to a complaint by a neighbor about it. With the level of bureaucracy in most towns, a simple complaint can illicit a quick blanket response like the removal notice the family received.

With that said, if the family was actually fined, or the city admitted they reviewed the situation onsite, and then threatened a fine, then I'd be singing a different tune.

The culture is sick, but i'm not sure this is a paradigm symptom.

Cheers,

Munk

I think the observation is that the neighbor is whacked, thus showing evidence of the problem with the culture.

I'm sure the city just sent a standard letter in response to a complaint, without any knowledge of what it was for. But the person who complained has something seriously wrong with them, in my opinion.

[kandrathe]

With that said, if the family was actually fined, or the city admitted they reviewed the situation onsite, and then threatened a fine, then I'd be singing a different tune.

So some points for clarification or some assumptions...

1) City hall hands out fines without verifying an offense.
2) City hall equates children's chalk drawing to spray painted graffitti.
3) A person would not challenge a fine or law of this type (stupid laws are why we have courts). However, $300 is cheaper than an hour with any New York lawyer.
4) The law as drafted is so vague that it punishes unintended activities

Wait till they outlaw fast food restaurants, then we'll hear some real belly-aching.

Slightly off topic: I saw "The Pursuit of Happyness" last night with Will Smith and his real life son Jaden. It was very well done, and also revealed many problems with our society. There was Ms. Chu the day care provider who had the kids watching Bonanza and Love Boat because it was American and Naval history. There was the family under stress where the mom is more concerned about getting out of an oppressive situation than she is for maintaining a loving family for her husband and child. The IRS coldly seizes all his assets without consideration of his financial status. And, you had homeless shelters with severe restrictions on beds. I think you can be unhappy in wealth or happy in poverty, but adequate means certainly can remove sources of unhappiness. This movie really pointed at the lack caring exhibited in our society. For me the overall theme was this hardheartedness shown to him by his wife, his friends, his neighbors, his city, and the social systems in general. The uplifting part of this movie is that the dream of "rags to riches" when you apply yourself message of the story is true. (real biography)

Again, it's a movie (fiction, based on a true story), but it seemed that there was an absolute dearth of social services, when I know that is not the case. What is true in California from my observation is that it seems the entire (homeless or not) world moves there for the climate. So competition for resources even when you have means is fierce.

[Urza-DSF]

So some points for clarification or some assumptions...

1) City hall hands out fines without verifying an offense.
2) City hall equates children's chalk drawing to spray painted graffitti.
3) A person would not challenge a fine or law of this type (stupid laws are why we have courts). However, $300 is cheaper than an hour with any New York lawyer.
4) The law as drafted is so vague that it punishes unintended activities

Wait till they outlaw fast food restaurants, then we'll hear some real belly-aching.

Slightly off topic: I saw "The Pursuit of Happyness" last night with Will Smith and his real life son Jaden. It was very well done, and also revealed many problems with our society. There was Ms. Chu the day care provider who had the kids watching Bonanza and Love Boat because it was American and Naval history. There was the family under stress where the mom is more concerned about getting out of an oppressive situation than she is for maintaining a loving family for her husband and child. The IRS coldly seizes all his assets without consideration of his financial status. And, you had homeless shelters with severe restrictions on beds. I think you can be unhappy in wealth or happy in poverty, but adequate means certainly can remove sources of unhappiness. This movie really pointed at the lack caring exhibited in our society. For me the overall theme was this hardheartedness shown to him by his wife, his friends, his neighbors, his city, and the social systems in general. The uplifting part of this movie is that the dream of "rags to riches" when you apply yourself message of the story is true. (real biography)

Again, it's a movie (fiction, based on a true story), but it seemed that there was an absolute dearth of social services, when I know that is not the case. What is true in California from my observation is that it seems the entire (homeless or not) world moves there for the climate. So competition for resources even when you have means is fierce.

For point 2, it isn't that the city fines chalk, it's that they got a report of graffiti and sent out a blanket statement. I really doubt that the person calling it in would make it seem so minor, and more than likely "trumped up" the accusation.

Otherwise, one thing to mention about the story is that it wasn't a non-paid internship. I believe he said he was making 150-300 a week or so. So it was enough to make it nessicary to seek shelter, but I don't believe it was as grim as the movie depicted. Not to mention that the projector/Z-ray or whatever machine was already taken care of long before he tried to finish that internship, at least as far as I recall. Oh, and he wasn't turned away from the childrens and mothers hospice or whatever, dunno if it just didn't exsist but there was a change there as well.

So it was bad for him, espically considering the heights he has now reached, but the movie painted a far more grim picture.

[kandrathe]

Otherwise, one thing to mention about the story is that it wasn't a non-paid internship. I believe he said he was making 150-300 a week or so. So it was enough to make it necessary to seek shelter, but I don't believe it was as grim as the movie depicted. Not to mention that the projector/Z-ray or whatever machine was already taken care of long before he tried to finish that internship, at least as far as I recall. Oh, and he wasn't turned away from the children and mothers hospice or whatever, dunno if it just didn't exist but there was a change there as well.

So it was bad for him, especially considering the heights he has now reached, but the movie painted a far more grim picture.

Yeah, the movie really piled it on. But, then, that's drama! I was also wondering that if he had a bunch of bone density machines to sell, why not just sell them all at a reduced price to maximize his short term cash flow and get out from under them, and what prevented him from getting a reasonable job. The reality of a low paid Dean Witter internship position makes more sense. The mother's motivation for running off to New York to work as a waitress was a little thin as well, but I bet the real life woman is kicking herself. Kind of like all those potential Mrs. Gates who thought Bill was just a pimply nerd in high school.

[Lissa]

1) City hall hands out fines without verifying an offense.
2) City hall equates children's chalk drawing to spray painted graffitti.

And how much money would a city end up spending if they had to send an inspector out for each and every complaint that came in? You're the one that constantly complains about wasteful spending, yet here you'd be advocating an increase of wasteful spending? The person at the heart of this that should end up getting slapped is the person that put in the complaint in the first place for something that is completely trivial and turned a mole hill into a mountain for the city, the city should hit them with a fine in same vein as the boy who cried wolf.

[Urza-DSF]

Kind of like all those potential Mrs. Gates who thought Bill was just a pimply nerd in high school.

Oddly enough, an article I read shortly after the movie came out had him stating that he had just rekindled a relationship with a girl he knew in high school. Don't recall how serious it was, but an interesting tidbit.

[kandrathe]

And how much money would a city end up spending if they had to send an inspector out for each and every complaint that came in? You're the one that constantly complains about wasteful spending, yet here you'd be advocating an increase of wasteful spending? The person at the heart of this that should end up getting slapped is the person that put in the complaint in the first place for something that is completely trivial and turned a mole hill into a mountain for the city, the city should hit them with a fine in same vein as the boy who cried wolf.

Right. Stupid law. I vote for repealing the stupid law, or if you really want to stop "damage" to property, then define tagging damage as something that is semi-permanent which requires much time and/or chemicals to remove.