Roleplaying in games

[MonTy]

Hail all,

I'm a huge fan of the Baldur's Gate series, but I skipped Icewind Dale. I just picked it up today, and I'm going to start playing later on. I'm going to try using 'hardcore roleplaying' rules that I've heard others talk about. For instance, not re-rolling the dice roll or changing the character's stats. I'm not quite sure about permadeath because I know first hand from BG that there are some nasty spells that if unprepared, can take your whole party out. But if that resides in the hardcore roleplaying rules; I'll give it a try. I was wondering if anyone knows of other rules I can abide by. Also, do I choose a class and profession based on the character's stats, or do I choose their class/profession beforehand. Any suggestions/help would be most appreciated.

With the new Diablo II patch comming out *cough* relatively soon, I'm going to also trying roleplaying it more. Anybody have suggestions on roleplaying in D2? I've done a party with paladins only, which was quite fun (but too easy).

[Nystul]

Here's my main advice for roleplaying in these games: write about your characters! Try to give them some real background leading up to the point at which the game starts. Flesh out at least in your mind what the character's personality is like: what do they look like, sound like, how do they greet a stranger, etc? As you plan your character's skills/spells/profiencies, create strong tie-ins between your character's background and his skills. In games like Baldur's Gate where you have some flexibility on how to complete quests, choose what your character would do instead of what would benefit your character the most. Then when something really funny or noteworthy happens in the game, take a few minutes after your done playing and write about it in character in the form of a journal entry,letter, or bar tale/song.

To me, writing in character is the best way to avoid falling into the trap of {pump the best stat, choose the best dialog, use the best item, end up with the same character I've played 20 times before}.

As for the hardcore stuff, some of it can help to make each game unique. If you take your stats at random instead of rerolling for the best of everything, you might have a peculiarity to your character that you can incorporate into his story. If you allow NPC deaths to be permanent in a game like BG (certainly not recommended unless you've played through the game many times), it can change the way your character's story plays out by forcing him to adjust. But these things on really on the periphery to the main issue, which is that you can't roleplay unless you really *know* your character.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Most people from the PnP world of role-playing knew that. However, that is probably a novel concept for both the "roll" players and those that have only played computer RPGs.

My only addition to MonTy is in reference to "Also, do I choose a class and profession based on the character's stats, or do I choose their class/profession beforehand." Unfortunately, the AD&D rules require that you select nearly everything about your character before rolling the stats. I consider this to be pretty stupid since to roleplay a character well, that character needs to be realistic. And, realistically, people tend to go in the direction of their talents.

Back when we played, we used to roll the stats first. And whatever came up was what you had to work with. Which meant that if the stats didn't meet minimums for a particular class, then you didn't have that choice. Race bonuses were added after. To make gender meaningful, we added one point to strength for males and one to dexterity for females. Our first session was typically spent rolling characters, having the DM give us whatever background s/he wanted to give and kinda noodling the character's bios. Then in the week between each session, we'd work on that bio so that we had a "live" character when we got together.

If you want to do that, the best thing is to roll the stats using dice before cranking up the game. Then start up the character generator. Either roll the character and then modify the file using one of the many file mods out there or reroll the character till the total comes out right and then reassign the points the way your dice rolls came out.

Of course, you could always go the route that the rules call for, but that often ends up giving you a character that would play better (from a role playing standpoint) some other way.

--Pete

[Mithrandir]

Icewind Dale is doable using hardcore rulesets the first time through as long as you don't have an incredibly unbalanced party and are pretty careful. Healing is plentiful (then again, I suppose it is in all the IE games - I go through every one without using a potion :) ), ambushes are minimal, baddies aren't too insane, and no real massive insta-death magic.

IWD2, on the other hand, I would venture to say ould be impossible to play through with perma death rules on your first run through... Constant ambushes, comparitively tougher casters (throughout the entire game, evil Clerics will be a consistent source of pain and mages are not too aghast at unleashing those 15d6 Sunfires :) ), and noticeably more difficult encounters.

Anyhoo, getting back to the topic of roleplaying: I agree with the above posters that writing down histories, bios, stories, etc. about your characters can really help to flesh out their personality and can be a fun exercise if you enjoy writing. This is coming from mostly PnP experience though, since in IWD I mostly just transferred PnP characters over and IWD2 I just powergamed through since I was unfamiliar with 3E at the time and thought it would be an interesting exercise to learn the ruleset a bit better. /shrug :)

[MonTy]

Hail all,

Thanks Nystul, Pete, and Mith!

Here's my main advice for roleplaying in these games: write about your characters!

-- Nystul

Writing my character first on paper seems like a perfect idea to roleplay it. Unfortunately, I never roleplayed in person with a group. Besides information from Baldur's Gate, I don't know much about AD&D.

I consider this to be pretty stupid since to roleplay a character well, that character needs to be realistic. And, realistically, people tend to go in the direction of their talents.

-- Pete

I was argueing with myself about that. Do people in real life go into a profession that they are highly skilled at, or something they are pre-destined to? All depends in which you believe in more I guess.

IWD2, on the other hand, I would venture to say ould be impossible to play through with perma death rules on your first run through

--Mithrandir

Thanks for the advice Mith. I'm sure it'll be invaluable. I think I'll play permadeath with my own little rules that would make it more fun for me. If one or two characters die in a fight, I can revive them. But if three or more people die in the party, some mighty god will force me to keep one random character dead . Not too harsh, but will still keep me on my toes (I hope).

Thanks again for the advice, I'm off to write down some characters!

*edit* I really never use smiley faces , but this time I put one in a paragraph and somehow it ended up in the title. Amazing!

[Roland]

There are no limits.

Say it again: there are no limits.

There are no pre-defined roles. There are no set rules. There are no concrete backdrops. There is only what you, your mind, can will.

Role-playing is nothing more than writing a story, and acting it out. It can be as simple and light, or as deep and involving, as you want it to be. There are no rules, no boundaries, no beginnings or ends. Be what you want. That is what role-playing is all about.

You don't need an English degree (and, let's face it, you practically need one just to play D&D ;)), nor an extensive, multi-decade background in PnP RPGs. All you need is an imagination and time. Spin the web of the world, for it is yours to weave as you wish.

Good luck in all your endeavors. Mayhap you shall find more than you set out with along the way.

[TaiDaishar]

One major thing about role playing is the way your character "thinks", for example, you role play an evil character and are asked to kill some goody two shoes priest, most of the players will do the quest because it's an 'evil quest' although I (for example) will not do the quests simply because I don't owe that god damn person anything, he wants me to do something he gotta pay me (and most of the times I'll kill him anyway, just because I feel like it).

I find playing Chaotic Neutral characters the most fun and I can get into characters a lot easier simply because you do whatever you wish, feel like in a good mood? Help that poor woman to save her child from the bad king, feel like hurting someone? KILL THE KING and give that woman her boy only if she pays for it, or else the boy is gone to the sewers!

[--Pete]

Hi,

. . . on the good/evil axis. Or one where lawful/chaotic makes any difference. Typically the game is balanced for neutral good but playable through true neutral. After that, you either break character or miss most of the side quests (and sometimes have to bail on the main story).

So, in most cases playing any type of evil character is best after completing the game and going into sandbox mode.

Now, with a good group and a very good DM, evil characters can be the best in PnP.

--Pete

[Korror]

Only problem with writing a story about your character is that it often becomes a bigger job than actually playing him. I'm still working on The Heroic Adventures of Korri Quicklaugh even though I've finished playing Baldur's gate II over a year ago. It's certainly been alot of fun to put myself in Korri's shoes and try to think as he did but I would advise that if you're writing your story to make sure to choose a short game otherwise you're in for a long stretch.

Korror

[TaiDaishar]

For everyone in here who has Neverwinter Nights I STRONGLY suggest picking up the Shadowlords campaign (Shadowlords is first, then Dreamcatcher and Demon is worked on at the moment).

The lines of evil/good, chaotic/lawful are much better there as well there's henchmen(women) interaction (not the crappy thing that was in NWN's official campaign!) and it most definatly NOT linear as well as very big and keep on getting bigger (Shadowlords is 5 chapters, Dreamcatcher is 4).

Here's a link: http://adamandjamie.com/nwn/

[--Pete]

Hi,

Couple of points.

First, one can write as little or as much as one wants. It isn't the writing that matters, it's the thinking. Getting to know your character.

Second, it sounds as if you are talking about writing the adventures of your character *in* the game. But what I was advocating is writing the background of your character *before* the game. And that doesn't depend on the length of the game, just on the experience of your character.

The background can be as simples as age, physical description, attitude and why, summary of previous "experience". A rough outline, handwritten, can be less than a page and still give you a guide on how the character "thinks".

--Pete

[MonTy]

Hail Pete,

I came up with a short story, about a page long for all six of my characters last nite. Basically just as you said, detailing on age, physical description, attitude, past, and unique qualities. Having more fun then I ever have had too. While Icewind Dale seems a bit dated, still seems like a great game to roleplay in (though more fighting then the Baldur's Gate series).

If anyone is interested in playing a truely evil class, I've heard Morrowind is great for that. I only played it when it first came out, and stopped half way because I killed a major character. But I heard with new patches and the expansion packs, you'll get a warning if you kill one so you can resort to your last save. I'll be picking up Morrowind and the two expansion packs after I finish Icewind Dale. Can't be playing too many RPGs :P

Thanks again everyone for the replies! Now with my newfound roleplaying style, lets see if the new Diablo patch can bring me back to D2. After BG1, 2 and now Icewind Dale, I kinda miss the pure action of D2.

[Ignatz]

I think people go into occupations and hobbies that don't match their talents all the time. Heck, I might almost say that it's miopic to think that even a majority of people are able to pursue jobs in-line with their talents. I think interests have at least as much of an effect as talent on a person's goals and activities.

For myself, I gave up my two primary talents long ago and decided never to return to them. Instead I have a job that interests me, but that I have had to work hard at to be proficient.

That said, I've always envied people who's talents matched their interests and who therefore knew right away what they wanted to do. Lucky bastards.

Ignatz

[Mithrandir]

First, one can write as little or as much as one wants. It isn't the writing that matters, it's the thinking.

I still have an entire PnP campaign existing solely in my head that I never got around to writing down since all my PnP buddies lost interest in it. It evolves and changes quite regularly (I'm actually starting on the Third Age) and at one point I was even playing around with a vastly different ruleset than the "standard" d20. The only bad part is that I'm starting to have dreams involving it :blink:

I also have a completely revised history of the realm of Hibernia for the game Dark Age of Camelot because I think the history Mythic has is a good start, but inadequate in certain places. Haven't written down that one yet either <_< I think my only motivation for writing it down might be to convince myself one day that Mythic reps might actually pick it out of thousands of email per day and read it.

Sometimes I ask myself, "Aren't you a little weird to be having all this stuff running around in your head?" The way I see it though, ya got nothing better to do while sitting on the john :)

[--Pete]

Hi,

The way I see it though, ya got nothing better to do while sitting on the john

Join the AAAS and get Science magazine weekly. That'll take up all you spare "reading" time ;)

--Pete

[Mithrandir]

Join the AAAS and get Science magazine weekly. That'll take up all you spare "reading" time

I would, but looking over the AAAS website, I don't think I can provide the proof it requires to get the Student subscription yet since I don't start college for a couple more months :) Though I'm intrigued by it since it looks very interesting, it also seems very odd that a magazine would require proof of a postdoc affiliation for one of the subscriptions. They have secrets in there that they don't want the mass population finding out? :P

"Founded in 1848 to represent all disciplines of science, AAAS supports scientific exchange and discussion of science and society issues." - Sounds pretty darn ambigious.

I don't know if I'd even be able to work it in though! Scientific American/Sports Illustrated at the dinner table and National Geographic (currently) in the bathroom. Granted, I blow through NG pretty quickly, but I need a good reason to disturb the well-oiled machine that is my routine ;)

[--Pete]

Hi,

it also seems very odd that a magazine would require proof of a postdoc affiliation for one of the subscriptions. They have secrets in there that they don't want the mass population finding out?

All the subscriptions are for the same magazine (and, indeed, for membership to the AAAS) so any interested party can get it. By "postdoc", they do not mean anyone who has completed a doctorate, they mean someone who is on a postdoc appointment. It is a discounted rate similar to the student rates and the emeritus rate. The proof is required to get the cheaper rate, not to get different information.

BTW, if you are interested in keeping up with science to this level, than another (perhaps I should say "the" other) alternative is Nature. However, both Science and Nature are a hard read. Depending on the specific article and the reader's background, sometimes an impossible read. Something along the lines of Scientific American is easier both on the wallet and on the time and does a more than adequate task of keeping an interested person up to date on anything other than their specific field of interest.

--Pete

[MonTy]

Hail all,

Now that I've got a decent way into Icewind Dale (loving it too), I was wondering which game everyone else enjoyed the most and why- out of Planetscape Torment, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and Neverwinter Nights. Only game I have yet to play is Icewind Dale 2, but if it resembles the first IWD, then I'm sure to love it. I would have to say I enjoyed Planetscape Torment the most so far. The storyline completely captured me and held my interest till the end. Playing Torment was quite a unique and deeply moving experience.Also, the combined games above definitely attribute to most of my memorable gaming moments.

[BanditAngel]

First off, addressing a few points I've seen raised:

In the original D&D, AD&D 2nd edition, and 3rd editon D&D, you roll stats first. The same goes for HackMaster, which was built using the AD&D 2nd edition rules, so I'm -really- suprised to hear you mentioning that you roll stats last in AD&D. The main problem with choosing a class first is that if you choose wizard and then roll an intelligence of 3, you no longer have a charecter. EVERY class had an attribute you had to have 9+ in (Fighter strength, Rogue dexterity, Wizard intelligence, Cleric wisdom). More advanced classes like Paladin required very good rolls, which made them special - only a few players would roll good enough to qualify.

Sub-point: While people might go in to careers they aren't terribly suited for, we're talking about adventurers here, and midieval times. If you where incredibly smart, the mage guild wanted you and there was a lot of social pressure to be a mage. Not to mention that Strength 9, Intelligence 18 tends to make a short lived and unsuccessful fighter, while as being bad at modern careers merely results in being unsuccessful but still alive. Important distinction :)

Second, if you're interested in making choices and having a lot of freedom, Planescape: Torment is a very nice game. It's easily played through as good or evil, and your alignment actually changes to suit your actions instead of being a choice. It's also got a great story and lots of roleplaying is involved. Not sure about IWD, but I wouldn't consider the Baldur's Gate series very strong on roleplaying due to the very linear nature of the plot.

Third, Raise Dead is a spell just like all the others. Unless you have an Intelligence of 3 it's obviously in charecter to use it on fallen companions (good charecters do it because it's nice, the rest do it because the charecter was obviously useful if they where a companion). A CN might leave someone dead on a whim, and a CE might hire people and get them killed for fun, but otherwise Raise Dead is quite in charecter. Of course, if you just want the challenge then go ahead and let them stay dead :)

Of course you can always impose more rules for an extra challenge, so feel free to choose class before attributes and refuse to use raise dead. Heck, play an unarmored, unarmed cleric who thinks he's a monk if you want to get weird :)

And one last thing: I've always felt that real roleplaying works out a LOT better when you play an actual RPG, not a computer game. Computer games approach the idea of an RPG, and even have a lot of the aspects, but they're still really quite weak on the -roleplaying- aspect. The fun of roleplaying, to me, has always been saying what my charecter would and doing stuff that only they would do. In a computer game you have to pick which option best suits your charecter instead.

And one really last thing: Playing a min/maxed charecter who always makes good choices and uses the good items is still roleplaying. After all, if I'm smart enough to make those choices I'm sure a smart charecter would too. Depending on the game, True Neutral or Neutral Good is going to be compatible with almost all the "best" choices, and the few exceptions can be written off as "serving a greater cause" :) As for min/maxing, some people devote their lives to being the pinnacle of their profession at the cost of everything else. And, really, whoever saves the world -is- probably an amazingly powerful being from the start, thus excusing those suspicious attributes :)

[Baajikiil]

In the original D&D, AD&D 2nd edition, and 3rd editon D&D, you roll stats first. The same goes for HackMaster, which was built using the AD&D 2nd edition rules, so I'm -really- suprised to hear you mentioning that you roll stats last in AD&D. The main problem with choosing a class first is that if you choose wizard and then roll an intelligence of 3, you no longer have a charecter. EVERY class had an attribute you had to have 9+ in (Fighter strength, Rogue dexterity, Wizard intelligence, Cleric wisdom). More advanced classes like Paladin required very good rolls, which made them special - only a few players would roll good enough to qualify.

While it's true that in the actual PnP rules you roll first, the makers of the video games decided it would be silly- I mean, if you want to be a paladin, you'll just restart and roll over and over again until you get paladin stats. They make it easier by allowing class to be chosen first(you only get stats that meet your class requirements).

I'll second the recommendation for Planescape Torment; altough it is also linear, it allows you to flesh out your character much more than the typical computer rpg.

And one last thing: I've always felt that real roleplaying works out a LOT better when you play an actual RPG, not a computer game. Computer games approach the idea of an RPG, and even have a lot of the aspects, but they're still really quite weak on the -roleplaying- aspect. The fun of roleplaying, to me, has always been saying what my charecter would and doing stuff that only they would do. In a computer game you have to pick which option best suits your charecter instead.

I agree completely. I love to play both types of games, but I have to say that PnP games really have the advantage. If you are really interested in role playing, try to find a group of friends who are willing to give it a shot.

Now if I can only find enough people willing to play PnP with me 2-6 hours a day :)
(methinks I'll still be playing computer rpgs for a while)