Elemental/Enhancement PvP Shaman

[Watto44]

Let me preface this by saying that, yes, I do realise that 30/0/21 is probably the optimal build for shaman PvP, and, yes, I know that the straight up utility of nature's swiftness probably out weighs anything else in the shaman trees. That being said, I'm enjoying my build at the moment and want to see how it plays out at level 60.:)

Well, onto my questions...

My little 49 shaman Treggles is nearing the stage where he'll be leveling out, and I thought I'd pop in here to try and finesse my build.

The basic build is 21/30/0, but I'm feeling a little torn as to how I should spend the 21 points in elemental. To the nitty-gritty: I'm wondering if I should pull points out of Convection - which reduces the cost of my shocks and lightning spells - and put them into Earth's Grasp and/or Elemental Warding - which, respectively, increases the radius of earth bind and decresses fire and frost damage taken. On the one hand mana is always a huge issue with shaman, and managing mana well wins you fights. Would the increased survivability granted by Elemental Warding counter balance that? I'm also dubious as to the usefulness of Earth's Grasp. I have it at the moment, and I'm not that impressed. It doesn't help you catch runners, and kiting someone with in the radius of a regular earth bind totem isn't that hard. (Or at least it wasn't back in the day when I was playing my 60 shaman.:)) Have people played with and without Earth's Grasp recently? Have they noticed a difference?

Next point: is it worth taking a point out of Reverberation and putting it into Elemental Devasation? On the one hand that would increase the synergies between elemental and enhancement at the cost of a mere 0.2 seconds of extra cooldown on my shocks. On the other hand, shocks really can be life and death to a shaman. Does a potential extra 3% melee crit outweigh that precious 0.2 seconds?

Final point: I have a floating point in enhancement that I've currently got slotted into Anticipation - giving me an extra 1% dodge chance. It could go in any of the following: improved weapon totems, improved lightning shield, shield specialisation, or toughness. Imp. Totems seems to be the only real contender, as it's great fun to drop windfury totem when you're grouped with a warrior. (It gives you something to do while you're waiting for grounding totem to come back up and your warrior will love you eternally for it.:)) The bonuses from shield specialisation seem really "meh" from a pvp perspective, and an extra 2% armor isn't really singing out to me, although perhaps it will help with those pesky rogues.

Any feedback on those issues, or the build in general, would be greatly appreciated.:)

PS. For anyone who's curious, here's my build at level 49. I should probably change it, mut I'm too much of a miser.:)

[Lok]

RE elemental- I think where you have it is optimum. Warding is not a significant resistance boost, and would only be something to get for raiding to boost your resistance to max. Earth's grasp is 2yds on the totem, hardly worth it. Reports on devastation are it sounds better than it really is. I would move points around in elemental though





Final point: I have a floating point in enhancement that I've currently got slotted into Anticipation - giving me an extra 1% dodge chance. It could go in any of the following: improved weapon totems, improved lightning shield, shield specialisation, or toughness. Imp. Totems seems to be the only real contender, as it's great fun to drop windfury totem when you're grouped with a warrior. (It gives you something to do while you're waiting for grounding totem to come back up and your warrior will love you eternally for it.:)) The bonuses from shield specialisation seem really "meh" from a pvp perspective, and an extra 2% armor isn't really singing out to me, although perhaps it will help with those pesky rogues.

Any feedback on those issues, or the build in general, would be greatly appreciated.:)

PS. For anyone who's curious, here's my build at level 49. I should probably change it, mut I'm too much of a miser.:)
[/quote]

[Falomin]

From my standpoint, which is a rogue standpoint, the two points in improved ghost wolf are wasted when they could be put into Anticipation. +2% dodge is infintely greater than a 2 sec decrease in casting time in my opinion.

[oldmandennis]

Two points in IGW makes it possible to do it while warstomping. It also really helps if you have ambitions of flag running.

[Delc]

21/30/0

I would just move a couple points around.

I think -10% elemental damage will usually beat a 6% mana savings for most fights. In the world of 2 shot pvp I don't run out of mana much anymore before I run out of health. Also I really am not a fan of the imp. SoE talent. For 3 points it gets you a 12str (assuming you have rank 5 of the totem). Plus you have to actually get the benefit you have to actually cast the totem every fight, which is situational at best. Improved ghost wolf is one of my favorite talents, as it makes the spell much more useful mid fight.

[Watto44]

From my standpoint, which is a rogue standpoint, the two points in improved ghost wolf are wasted when they could be put into Anticipation. +2% dodge is infintely greater than a 2 sec decrease in casting time in my opinion.

Imp. Ghost Wolf is, IMO, too handy to miss out on if you're going enhancement. Given that I'm skipping nature's swiftness, my ability to kite and anti-kite are key to survival. (Go go rank 1 frostshock.) Also, as Dennis mentioned, it's pretty handy when you're flag running.

I think -10% elemental damage will usually beat a 6% mana savings for most fights. In the world of 2 shot pvp I don't run out of mana much anymore before I run out of health.

Interesting. But I wonder if that's dependant on the gear you're running with. Focusing, even a little, on enhancement cuts into your mana pool quite heavily, although I am planing on trying to keep a decent mana pool. The difficulty of course is that elemental warding only really helps with mages - and to a lesser extent warlocks. Where as an extra boost in mana will help against druids, priests and paladins. I guess I'll have to sit down and try both. /grumble

Funnily enough, I never even thought of moving points from imp. SoE/GoA into Anticipation. Now that you've mentioned it though, I can't imagine why. :wacko:

Thanks for the feedback guys.:)

[Falomin]

Imp. Ghost Wolf is, IMO, too handy to miss out on if you're going enhancement. Given that I'm skipping nature's swiftness, my ability to kite and anti-kite are key to survival. (Go go rank 1 frostshock.) Also, as Dennis mentioned, it's pretty handy when you're flag running.

Well, this is what happens when a rogue offers shaman advice:D Add in the fact that I'm more of an alliance player and you have a thread I should have just not posted in:)

At least you can take advantage of my 100% money back guarantee.

[Watto44]

At least you can take advantage of my 100% money back guarantee.

Sold! I'm keeping the steak knives though. :w00t: ;) (Still haven't leveled yet. I'm probably - maybe - going to wait until the next maintanance to see if 1.12 is going live. Impressions incoming...eventually.)

[Lok]

Probably not what you want but take a look

16/11/24

This is the build my 7yr old son is using with his lvl 60 shaman. After a bit of thought, he really uses shocks a lot, likes the 2h axe, and now that he has tasted it, loves natures swiftness. I think it is a pretty solid all around build. On the elemental side, you can't get reverb without committing 15 or 16 to elemental, so you grab all the standard shock enhancers. Yeah it hurts some not getting elemental fury, but you still can shock reasonbly hard. For enhancement, you give up on flurry, parry, and all the weapon totem goodies in order to get a streamlined 11...yet you still can get improved ghostwolf and lightning shield. On the resto side the climb is pretty standard, with one unknown- does earthshock get a benefit from tidal mastery? If not you can probably redistribute some. What he likes about the resto is the big , emergency heal as well as a bit more mana efficiency on the totems.

He went from a 22/29/0 build with shocks and more enhancement. The burst is better on dual specs than it is on tri specs, but you lose some of the functionality. He is much happier now.

[KiloVictor]

Well, this is what happens when a rogue offers shaman advice:D Add in the fact that I'm more of an alliance player and you have a thread I should have just not posted in:)

Hmm, you aren't the same Falomin that played a shaman on Kilrogg at launch, are you?

Kv

[Falomin]

Hmm, you aren't the same Falomin that played a shaman on Kilrogg at launch, are you?

Kv

Sorry to take so long getting back to you.

The answer is yes. That was indeed me, that is why I sometimes think that I still know the shaman class:)

I don't recognize your name, send me a meesage sometime, would be nice to find out what the people on that server are up to.

[Artega]

I recall seeing someone's idea of a "Battle Mage" Shaman build on the old Blizzard forums a while back, before they implemented the new software. I don't recall the exact build, but it went something like this.

The idea was to stack spell damage gear where possible (I guess sacrificing some straight physical DPS stats and enchants to do so) and use Flametongue Weapon, and abuse the crap out of the fact that it gets the same bonus from spelldamage regardless of weapon speed. I recall them even having a math formula you could use to calculate the ideal amount of spelldamage for your weapon's particular attack speed. I'd guess that a fast dagger and a shield would be the preferred setup, though. Moreover, you're getting the 21-point Elemental talent so that a Flametongue proc crit will do a full double damage. Not sure if this would actually be more powerful than a straight Elemental or Enhancement build, but it sounds interesting.

[Delc]

I recall seeing someone's idea of a "Battle Mage" Shaman build on the old Blizzard forums a while back, before they implemented the new software. I don't recall the exact build, but it went something like this.

The idea was to stack spell damage gear where possible (I guess sacrificing some straight physical DPS stats and enchants to do so) and use Flametongue Weapon, and abuse the crap out of the fact that it gets the same bonus from spelldamage regardless of weapon speed. I recall them even having a math formula you could use to calculate the ideal amount of spelldamage for your weapon's particular attack speed. I'd guess that a fast dagger and a shield would be the preferred setup, though. Moreover, you're getting the 21-point Elemental talent so that a Flametongue proc crit will do a full double damage. Not sure if this would actually be more powerful than a straight Elemental or Enhancement build, but it sounds interesting.

After the shaman review I started playing around with using flametongue over WF. The biggest problem I have found is that it requires a fast weapon, low AP, and high +dmg gear set to make it better than WF. Even after the nerf WF just scales so much better than the other weapon buffs.


That is pretty much what I consider the ideal grinding shaman spec atm, and its how I plan on speccing when the xpac hits, of course picking up SS at lv 61.

[Sal Paradise]

After the shaman review I started playing around with using flametongue over WF. The biggest problem I have found is that it requires a fast weapon, low AP, and high +dmg gear set to make it better than WF. Even after the nerf WF just scales so much better than the other weapon buffs.
That is pretty much what I consider the ideal grinding shaman spec atm, and its how I plan on speccing when the xpac hits, of course picking up SS at lv 61.

I wouldn't count out Stormstrike before the XPAC either. Stormstrike isn't only instant damage, but alows the next 2 sources of nature damage to go up by 20%. That is usually an earth shock and a single proc of lightning shield.

Getting a 100% crit bonus is nice WHEN you crit. But how often is that? If you get the extra stormstrike damage plus the 20% to the two other spells, this is usually much better until a shaman gets significantly more +crit and +damage gear. If you are using a big, slow 2-hander like Twig of the World Tree, stormstrike REALLY shows its colors. I would strongly consider taking stormstrike if you plan to go that far into enhancement. Burst damage is king in PvP, and this is the best burst you can get in enhancement.

[Watto44]

I wouldn't count out Stormstrike before the XPAC either. Stormstrike isn't only instant damage, but alows the next 2 sources of nature damage to go up by 20%. That is usually an earth shock and a single proc of lightning shield.

Getting a 100% crit bonus is nice WHEN you crit. But how often is that? If you get the extra stormstrike damage plus the 20% to the two other spells, this is usually much better until a shaman gets significantly more +crit and +damage gear. If you are using a big, slow 2-hander like Twig of the World Tree, stormstrike REALLY shows its colors. I would strongly consider taking stormstrike if you plan to go that far into enhancement. Burst damage is king in PvP, and this is the best burst you can get in enhancement.

I thought long and hard about getting Stormstrike. I tested on the PTR and used it pre the talent redesign. The burst damage is certainly good - although I would cringe everytime it was waisted on lightning shield. Stormstrike, chain lightning, earth shock is definately great burst. However, just one crit with elemental fury balances out the 20% damage increase from stormstrike. So, if you get that crit the only effective damage increase from stormstrike is the extra swing. Good, but not great unless it procs a windfury. (Assuming that lightning shield burns a stormstrike charge, elemental mastery will almost certainly outweigh stormstrike.)

I certainly don't discount stormstrike. I think it's a nice talents. However, the idea of my build was to make an enhancement shaman who isn't reliant on windfury and who can achieve some level of consistant, agressive play. To that end, I feel that elemental fury is the better talent.

As for how offen things crit? Well, I would be running with the PvP set (assuming I ever level my shaman, I've become sidetracked with a mage) which offers plus 4% spell crit with an additional 2% on shocks. Not huge, but certainly not something to be sneezed at.:)

NOTE: I failed Thoerycrafting 101, so any mathamatics implied in this post is likely suspect. :whistling:

[Delc]

I wouldn't count out Stormstrike before the XPAC either. Stormstrike isn't only instant damage, but alows the next 2 sources of nature damage to go up by 20%. That is usually an earth shock and a single proc of lightning shield.

Well I won't have either before the xpac actually. My current spec is 8/5/38. :whistling:But I can mana tide things to death! :ph34r:

[Watto44]

Well I won't have either before the xpac actually. My current spec is 8/5/38. :whistling:But I can mana tide things to death! :ph34r:

Rawr!!

On that note, I've always thought it's a shame mana tide doesn't scale with gear. (Yours or your parties.) However, that is - and has been - a discussion for another topic.:)