Warriors/Rogues and AV rep?

[fractaled]

So what's the best way for warriors/rogues to get AV rep now?

In my limited testing it appeared that once you died you didn't get any credit for kills after that.

I don't see any good options for rogues. For warriors, I'd guess team up with a priest, shield, run in, demo shout/clap, run out. Or just plink at outliers with guns/thrown.

Either way, rep rate will go down for everybody with the new system. And way way down for warriors/rogues.

[Quark]

Join the main raid group, follow the zerg around (objectives? hah!), and stay alive as long as possible, to the point of not actually helping.

Welcome to a melee's world of gaining rep :(

[Crusader]

Join the main raid group, follow the zerg around (objectives?  hah!), and stay alive as long as possible, to the point of not actually helping.

Welcome to a melee's world of gaining rep :(
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The point is you have to be "tagging" the enemies somehow to gain rep in the new AV system. unlike, for instanc,e healers, who just have to heal a person and everyone who has the healed person on his/her aggro list now also has the healer on the list.

[Ravage]

The point is you have to be "tagging" the enemies somehow to gain rep in the new AV system. unlike, for instanc,e healers, who just have to heal a person and everyone who has the healed person on his/her aggro list now also has the healer on the list.
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So, the best way to get on everyone's hate list would then be to throw a bandage on a busy healer?

[Quark]

I heard it worked just like Honor gain. I know I've gotten honor from many fights I haven't been involved in.

[Quark]

So, the best way to get on everyone's hate list would then be to throw a bandage on a busy healer?
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Yes, if true. Stick to Linen too, it's cheaper :P

[oldmandennis]

Join the main raid group, follow the zerg around (objectives?  hah!), and stay alive as long as possible, to the point of not actually helping.

Welcome to a melee's world of gaining rep :(
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Or actually try to .... you know.... win. Now that hopefully the afkbots have moved on, it should be more fun to spend time there. For some reason the long stalemates on my server seem to have stopped, and most games are wrapping up in under 3 hours.

Does the entire map get rep for the sidequests still? Or how is that handled?

[Concillian]

For some reason the long stalemates on my server seem to have stopped, and most games are wrapping up in under 3 hours.
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It's been a long time since I've seen a serious stalemate. On my final push, I was seeing match after match completing in 45-90 minutes.

Generally the main forces would pass each other in the middle and race to each other's base. The losing force (usually Horde on Terenas) would at least get a kill of the captain plus several lieutenants and 2 towers. Primary rep gain is not coming from normal kills in that scenario. You're getting 200 or so an hour from objectives even if you lose.

Alliance has long queues and this becomes efficient honor for them in the PvP rank grind, Horde are just there for rep since AV is horribly inefficient for the honor grinders who are jumping in and out of WSG every 10-15 minutes. It works out good for both parties.

Nothing is a slower rep grind than a stalemate. You want to break that any way you can.

[Mirajj]

I popped into AV today to see what the rep change portended. I joined the melee on the Field of Strife.

10 minutes later, my AV rep had gone up 140 pts.

Looks like that Exalted ring won't be such a long, boring grind after all.

[Quark]

Looks like that Exalted ring won't be such a long, boring grind after all.
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Sure, if you don't mind that the goal is no longer to win. No reason to play defense, no reason to go for objectives ... just kill.

[Watto44]

It's been a long time since I've seen a serious stalemate.  On my final push, I was seeing match after match completing in 45-90 minutes.

Generally the main forces would pass each other in the middle and race to each other's base.  The losing force (usually Horde on Terenas) would at least get a kill of the captain plus several lieutenants and 2 towers.  Primary rep gain is not coming from normal kills in that scenario.  You're getting 200 or so an hour from objectives even if you lose.

Alliance has long queues and this becomes efficient honor for them in the PvP rank grind, Horde are just there for rep since AV is horribly inefficient for the honor grinders who are jumping in and out of WSG every 10-15 minutes.  It works out good for both parties.

Nothing is a slower rep grind than a stalemate.  You want to break that any way you can.
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I dropped in on a Terenas AV a couple of weeks ago, just to see how things are working now and was a little confused. There was no PvP, it was just a straight out PvE race to the generals. While I certainly haven't missed the six hour games of old, it was a little sad to see the complete lack of player on player encounters.

Mind you, that's easy for me to say when I already have exalted (on Stormscale). I know I would've hated having to grind through any more of those horrendous games that there used to be on Terenas.

[fractaled]

After some more testing, you can get rep after dying in battle.

Throwing daggers are better than guns because they throw instantly then cooldown (less chance for out-of-range/too-close).

Rep rate is totally(?) a function of death rate of opposing side (excluding the one-time quests you can do). If there are X deaths in an hour, then you're pretty much capped at around 1.5*X rep/hour. The extra 50% comes from armor and crystal/blood drops. (Note that crystal/blood turnins cap out eventually; not sure if armor does too).

I don't have a good feel for what X is. I probably die 10-20 times an hour (as a green warrior), but I know some classes seem to die less (hunters, priests). Assuming I'm average, that puts the optimal rep/hour at 600-900 (assuming you tag each and every kill).

For warriors it seems like a combination of suicide charges (demo shout/thunder clap), throwing daggers and bandaging AoEers/healers (this seemed to work in my testing, but not 100% sure). Rogues have those last two options as well.

In my first hour I was able to get about 150 rep, in my 2nd about 210.

I don't like AV that much in the first place, and there's no way I'll spend 3-4 hours per 1000 rep to get exalted. :[

[Concillian]

In my first hour I was able to get about 150 rep, in my 2nd about 210.

I don't like AV that much in the first place, and there's no way I'll spend 3-4 hours per 1000 rep to get exalted. :[
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Holy ouch.

You get over 100 rep just for killing the opposing faction's captain. And 2 towers is 24 rep. My rep rate on Terenas when LOSING was still around 3-400 rep per hour. Wins would bump it to 500-750 range.

Like I said, rep is about O. D may when games, but if you're after rep, you want to be as much O as possible.

It's a shame that people are letting the changes in the patch change the way they play. If you're moving through games quickly, rep from kills is only a small portion of rep. And if rep from kills is only a small portion of your rep, then the patch change doesn't affect rep gain much.

[Concillian]

I dropped in on a Terenas AV a couple of weeks ago, just to see how things are working now and was a little confused. There was no PvP, it was just a straight out PvE race to the generals. While I certainly haven't missed the six hour games of old, it was a little sad to see the complete lack of player on player encounters.

Mind you, that's easy for me to say when I already have exalted (on Stormscale). I know I would've hated having to grind through any more of those horrendous games that there used to be on Terenas.
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There is PvP action, but it's away from the 2 zergs. AV has become a place where it's good for alliance to gain honor. You can often find some of the top alliance PvP honor grinders outside the horde cave plucking off the unsuspectiong people coming out one at a time. They can get full kill credit on a large number of people this way. That can be an interesting place to hang around for small scale group PvP. Defending GYs will also generally bring some of the better PvPers out. The zerg is just that. Each side is mostly rolling over the other in the zerg.

I was still in a couple LOONG games, they are just pretty rare now compared to when AV was first starting. I remember one particular game I went into, looked at the time it was up and it read over 20 hours. People were coming into the game saying "wait, this is the same game I was in yesterday" Those games are fun for a bit, but horrible for rep, and with very few exceptions, horde are only in there for rep, since horde honor grinders have much greener pastures in the AFK Gulch.

[MongoJerry]

I was still in a couple LOONG games, they are just pretty rare now compared to when AV was first starting.  I remember one particular game I went into, looked at the time it was up and it read over 20 hours.  People were coming into the game saying "wait, this is the same game I was in yesterday"  Those games are fun for a bit, but horrible for rep, and with very few exceptions, horde are only in there for rep, since horde honor grinders have much greener pastures in the AFK Gulch.

Honest question: How is it that Horde AFK'ers have it easier than Alliance AFK'ers?

[Kevin]

Honest question:  How is it that Horde AFK'ers have it easier than Alliance AFK'ers?
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Horde average queue time 3 minutes.
Alliance average queue time 3 hours.

[Concillian]

Horde average queue time 3 minutes.
Alliance average queue time 3 hours.
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Yeah, there are no Alliance AFKers on Terenas. To do so would totally destroy their honor earning potential. Alliance side get fewer chances at getting honor, to squander an opportunity on an AFK would be costly.

Horde can AFK out and get a new group in less than a minute, for them AFK is an integral part of their honor grind. it's not uncommon to see the top honor grinders pushing a million honor on a WSG weekend.

[MongoJerry]

Yeah, there are no Alliance AFKers on Terenas.  To do so would totally destroy their honor earning potential.  Alliance side get fewer chances at getting honor, to squander an opportunity on an AFK would be costly.

Horde can AFK out and get a new group in less than a minute, for them AFK is an integral part of their honor grind.  it's not uncommon to see the top honor grinders pushing a million honor on a WSG weekend.

Ah, I totally misread Concillian's comment about "AFK Gulch" and was still thinking of AV and all the AFK botters that were there. Also, on Tichondrius, the player population is fairly even and from a queue standpoint favors the alliance, since more Horde queue up for BG's than Alliance do.

I just finished a great game of AV. I was in a team of nine guildmates who along with the 31 Horde pug's systematically picked apart the Alliance. It's been a long time since we've had a good solid game like that (the Alliance groups weren't total pushovers, either -- they had their own organized small groups). Best of all? No AFK botters or rep farmers. Everyone was actually involved in the fight. The match took about an hour and a half to complete and was quite fun.

[oldmandennis]

Side rant - Why put deserter in if it is going to be so easy to avoid. All you are punishing now is the casual puggie, whereas pro teams are almost able to go about business as usual.

Any further info on the system? Does the whole raid share the kill rep, even if they are not on the targets "threat list"? What about rep for side quests?

[Gorthag]

Side rant - Why put deserter in if it is going to be so easy to avoid.  All you are punishing now is the casual puggie, whereas pro teams are almost able to go about business as usual.

Any further info on the system?  Does the whole raid share the kill rep, even if they are not on the targets "threat list"?  What about rep for side quests?
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My experience while running the SCT addon (which shows rep gain messages as floating on-screen text), is that every time I got an HK, I got 1 faction point. I also got faction from the regular turn ins for cavalry, troop upgrades and stormpike blood as usual, i.e. regardless of proximity and regardless of whether I was in the raid.

Although I was initially happy that the "PvE race" approach to AV seems to have gone away as there is an incentive to fight PC's, the latest tactic from the alliance on Terenas is to cap IB and camp the Horde entrance tunnel for HKs/rep. This is very un-fun, but obviously they seem to think it's better faction than going for the win.