+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Lurker Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Lounge (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-12.html)
+--- Thread: Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage (/thread-1974.html)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Kevin - 05-24-2008
My anecdotal evidence is that I'll stay the heck away from Western Digital. It's the only make of drive that has failed for me in personal systems from normal usage. I've had an IBM and a Seagate fail from outside influence. The Seagate fell 15 feet onto concrete and then died a week later, I got the data off it. The IBM drive had one of my friends leave a soldering iron on the exposed PCB on the bottom of one. I've had 2 WD drives die while in systems that had no other issues. One was under warranty and the warranty service was horrid. The other was out of warranty. The Seagate was under warranty and was replaced even though it technically shouldn't have been. I told them what happened, they sent me another anyway.
A batch of WD drives also died at work. 32 out of 150. Several other WD drives I've been around have developed high pitched whines. They didn't fail but I couldn't stand to have them in a system that wasn't in a soundproofed enclosure.
Seagate has been my drive of choice for about 10 years now. That's not say I haven't gotten the odd Maxtor, IBM or WD in that time if the price has been too good to pass up. But I'll pay more for a Seagate than I will for other brands if it isn't too much more. I admit a lot of that has to do with the warranty replacement on the dropped drive and the 14 year old 2GB SCSI drive I have from that that is still in service. It also helps that none of the several dozen or so I've had for personal use have never died while I still owned them and some of them are still kicking in other people's machines to this day (there is a 10 year old 12 gigger in my parents machine).
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - kandrathe - 05-24-2008
Quote:Hi,:)Thanks. It's been awhile, and I remembered it wasn't a usual statistical distribution.
Small nit, that should be the Weibull distribution. Or one of its relatives. The Poisson just doesn't do it.
--Pete
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - MonTy - 05-25-2008
Thanks for the post! I'm definitely going to use this as a guideline for my new computer :-)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Griselda - 05-26-2008
Whereas I've had no luck with Seagate but the Western Digitals are all still working fine.:)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-26-2008
Santa came!
![[Image: toyscf6.jpg]](http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3212/toyscf6.jpg)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - MonTy - 05-26-2008
Oooh nice. Now having all the hardware not defective will based off whether you've been a good boy this year:P
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-26-2008
Quote:Oooh nice. Now having all the hardware not defective will based off whether you've been a good boy this year:P
I guess I was a good boy this year!
Everything went fine. Installing the CPU/heatsink had me a bit nervous because I had never done that before, but it was easy enough. It booted on the first try. I'm gonna put it through 3DMark06 soon to see how it fares.
![[Image: 1004258bb4.jpg]](http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/4950/1004258bb4.jpg)
![[Image: cpuzms7.png]](http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7402/cpuzms7.png)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Griselda - 05-26-2008
Quote:I guess I was a good boy this year!
Everything went fine. Installing the CPU/heatsink had me a bit nervous because I had never done that before, but it was easy enough. It booted on the first try. I'm gonna put it through 3DMark06 soon to see how it fares.
Congrats!
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - MonTy - 05-26-2008
Quote:I guess I was a good boy this year!
Everything went fine. Installing the CPU/heatsink had me a bit nervous because I had never done that before, but it was easy enough. It booted on the first try. I'm gonna put it through 3DMark06 soon to see how it fares.
Wow, booted on your first try? Not bad! A congratulations is in order for that feat. The CPU/heatsink is indeed a nerve wrecking task. I'm glad that everything worked out. Let us know how your marks turn out.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-26-2008
Quote:Wow, booted on your first try? Not bad!
I actually had more trouble swapping the videocards on my old system. I pulled out the 7900GS for my new computer, and put in a 7600GS. I couldn't get any display at all until I removed the old drivers and reinstalled new ones, which is weird because I didn't have to do that when I went from 7600GS > 7900GS.
Now I'm in the process of configuring everything "just right", which is gonna take forever:(
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - MonTy - 05-27-2008
Quote:I actually had more trouble swapping the videocards on my old system. I pulled out the 7900GS for my new computer, and put in a 7600GS. I couldn't get any display at all until I removed the old drivers and reinstalled new ones, which is weird because I didn't have to do that when I went from 7600GS > 7900GS.
Now I'm in the process of configuring everything "just right", which is gonna take forever:(
Yea, it's always a safe bet to uninstall drivers when updating them or putting in a new graphic card. I know you can get away without doing that, but it can cause problems down the line.
Gotta look at the bright side.. atleast you're to the configuration part and not the shipping parts back to the manufacturer ;-)
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-27-2008
Quote:Yea, it's always a safe bet to uninstall drivers when updating them or putting in a new graphic card. I know you can get away without doing that, but it can cause problems down the line.
Gotta look at the bright side.. atleast you're to the configuration part and not the shipping parts back to the manufacturer ;-)
I usually remove old drivers before installing a new videocard, but since I didn't have to install new drivers when I put in the 7900GS I didn't bother. I figured the 7600GS would just work, which I guess it did but was displaying a resolution that my old LCD couldn't handle and I had no way of changing it until I removed the old drivers. Oh well, it's fine now.
Praise Jebus I have a USB external dive and a 2GB memory stick for moving stuff from the old system to the new one.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - --Pete - 05-27-2008
Hi,
Quote:I guess I was a good boy this year!Good going! And nice use of those cable ties:)
Everything went fine. Installing the CPU/heatsink had me a bit nervous because I had never done that before, but it was easy enough. It booted on the first try. I'm gonna put it through 3DMark06 soon to see how it fares.
--Pete
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-27-2008
Quote:Good going! And nice use of those cable ties:)
I used the bright red ones from my bucket of zip ties (I seriously do have a whole bucket full of them) just so I can open the case and HEY THERE'S A CABLE ATTACHED RIGHT THERE!
I really don't like the cable issue to be quite honest. I don't like the fact that my PSU has two molex leads with 3 connectors on each and the only thing that is using a molex power connector is the 120mm fan at the rear of the box. I stuffed them into the front of the case as best I could, but it's ugly. I'm really glad I don't have any IDE ribbon cables in that mess.
I also don't like the black cable you see running horizontally through the middle of the case. It's the front panel audio connection, and I just don't see a way to run it to the motherboard without doing it that way. The only other option is to snake it flush along the motherboard. I don't think there's enough room to run it below the motherboard, and I'm not going to pull out the motherboard to try it.
I think I have all the cables secured away from the motherboard and the fans enough to ensure good airflow (I'm surprised at how quiet that 120mm case fan is), but I think I'll be looking at modular PSU prices for a future upgrade. I'm not using half of those cables.
Here's the 3DMark06 score:
![[Image: 052608ge4.png]](http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4824/052608ge4.png)
It's kinda underwhelming, but 3DMark is slanted towards GPU performance and my video card is 2 generations old. If I had a 8800GT or 9600GT I'm sure it would be pretty decent.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Bevock - 05-27-2008
That looks really nice DeeBye!
I guess I look at some things differently when shopping for computer parts. I used to buy parts for the lowest price I could find at local computer shows and build my own systems. Now I normally check specs, reviews, warranties and prices and have a local distributor that builds our systems for work build me my home unit. I also stopped chasing the biggest and fastest when I saw in three to six months it was 1/2 to 1/4 the price.
It's just doesn't seem worth my time anymore sending parts back and forth when you get those "duds". Yes I pay more but I get the parts I want, with all the documentation and disks but no crap pre-loaded on it.
I have asked a few times for parts that were not going to be in the channel for 3-4 months which was normally worth a laugh! Sometimes Intel or AMD will send out chipsets to the board makers and some small batch will be reviewed. I remember one board had a backlog of 1000 pieces and no idea when they were going to be delivered.
I have to do enough repairs at work that I just don't get the urge much to build my own systems anymore.
I only remember seeing let me call it "desktop" or "server" class drives the last time I was looking. I do remember a few years back WD was making home models that just had a one year warranty instead of three which turned me off a little as I didn't see the point of it. I thought that over time the quality of the drives and warranties should go up not down.
The server class drives had a much higher rating on mean time to falure if ran non-stop but I don't remember what they were.
Pete, that's a good way to look for the drives but I normally deside on a model then check the prices for the different sizes if I'm not sure how large a drive to go for. As some one who started with a 40 meg hard drive on a 286 they all seem REALLY big to me. I think some one told me they are even selling terabyte (sp?) drives now.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - --Pete - 05-27-2008
Hi,
Quote:I really don't like the cable issue to be quite honest.It looks clean enough to me. There doesn't seem to be any major airflow blocking, and the excess wires are pretty well out of the way. Unless you're going with a see through panel, internally illuminated show case, what you've got is good.
. . .
I think I have all the cables secured away from the motherboard and the fans enough to ensure good airflow
I have been known to be anal about that, to the point that I've spent days prepping a case. I've opened power supplies and removed (unsoldered) all the connectors that I didn't need. I've remade cables to get rid of excess length. I've even assembled all the components, marked the cable locations (with a water based marker), removed the components, and cut holes in the back panel to run the cables out of sight. Believe me, once the cover is on, no-one (including you) will really care.
So, again, good job with those cable ties ;)
--Pete
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - --Pete - 05-27-2008
Hi,
Quote:Pete, that's a good way to look for the drives . . .I don't actually do it that way either. When I'm becoming 'computer literate' because it's time to upgrade, I spend some weeks reading recent articles on Tom's Hardware, do the odd search for specs, etc., and post to the most knowledgeable site around (right here on the Lounge;)). Then I set a budget, do some shopping, and revise what I'm going to get to be more in line with what I can afford. But I totally agree with you, bleeding edge is not worth the cost or the hassle. Three to six month 'old' technology is a lot cheaper, often a lot more reliable, and usually available when you want it.
Now that I've lowered my standards for layout and looks, it typically takes a few hours to assemble the system, and that way, I know everything thats been done, be it jumpers, or what connector the DVD audio is plugged into, etc. Not that big an investment in time, in my opinion. And it makes maintenance, upgrades, and repairs easier downstream. Of course, the last two machines I've put together have taken over two years to assemble -- but that is due to special circumstances.
Quote:As some one who started with a 40 meg hard drive on a 286 they all seem REALLY big to me.:) 5 MB on a PDP 11-23 for me. The drive was the shape and a little bigger than the size of an old vinyl turntable, complete with the smoky Plexiglas cover through which you could see the platter (one sided) and the read-write head. But it let us run UNIX, and that *was* cutting edge. :lol:
--Pete
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Concillian - 05-27-2008
Quote:Whereas I've had no luck with Seagate but the Western Digitals are all still working fine.:)
Which is why I say (and, as I said, I work for a hard drive company, I have some inside information that supports this) that all companies have failures, they all have some level of "acceptable" discrepant drives that make it to the marrket and fail. The requirements are just too stringent to satisfy demand, capacity, price, and have 100% reliability.
If you look at what people are willing to pay for storage, you realize that this is a necessary evil. You don't see too many people buying a couple hundredths of a percent less failure rate by paying for server level drives instead of desktop level drives.
You are in just as much risk by buying one brand exclusively than by buying a multitude of brands. ALL brands have failures, and they are all about the same rate. At the failure rate typically experienced (somewhere less than 0.x%) the sample size required to be a significant indicator is in the thousands, if not millions of drives. You simply can't get accurate competitive data unless you're Dell or something.
There are some exceptions to these general trends and those are pretty well documented on the internet. The infamous IBM "Deathstar" drives are the most prominent example. There was a 1.6GB WD drive that had a well known failure issue (I got bit by one of these). Thosee kinds of things are also somewhat random, though sometimes a company may release drives that have known issues, I don't think this is generally something that would be done purposefully, as the downsides are far reaching and potentially a name-branding killer for years.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - DeeBye - 05-28-2008
Quote:be it jumpers, or what connector the DVD audio is plugged into, etc.
I just want to point out that you don't have to do any of this stuff with today's hardware. SATA drives - both fixed and optical - have eliminated the need to mess around with jumpers. You plug the SATA cable to the motherboard and plug in the SATA power cable from the PSU and it's done. There's no more "master" or "slave" anymore, and you don't have to mess around with unruly and overly-wide IDE ribbon cables.
3.5" inch floppy drives are also unnecessary these days. I had one on my last computer, and the only thing I ever used it for was to install SATA drivers for my hard drive when I was installing Windows. You don't need to worry about that anymore. If you do need a floppy drive (and I can't imagine why), there are USB drives.
The build took about 3 hours for me, and an hour of that time was spent reworking cables. Another hour was spent worrying about if I had the CPU+heatsink seated correctly and whether I had all the brass standoffs in the correct place. If I had to do it again I bet it would take half that time. The only thing that takes more time setting up now is front panel connections. I had to run HDD and power LEDs, USB, eSATA, and audio lines. I had to study the motherboard and case documentation pretty closely to be sure I got it all right.
I also had a minor scare when I ran SpeedFan to check my CPU temps. It showed I was running at 58 degress Celsius at idle, which is way too hot. I thought I didn't seat the heatsink properly. I did a Google check for "E8400 temperature" and apparently it's just an issue with the temp sensors reporting an incorrect reading. The BIOS shows it in the low 30s, and I just did about 4 hours of hefty gaming with no issues so I guess I'm okay.
Updating the 'puter for hardcore ownage - Taem - 05-28-2008
I was rather ticked off to find out Fry's Electronics doesn't carry my RAM anymore, or CPU. Apparently my motherboard is antiquated in the world of computer electronics (ASUS A8N-SLi Deluxe), however when I bought it, it was top of the line, #1 in it's class, and so was the RAM. I build it myself I think 4-5 years ago but it was last year when I did decided to do an upgrade to 4-gigs of RAM and a dual-core processor after my video card crapped out. Imagine my surprise when I found out my computer and most of it's core components was a dinosaur after a little over 3-years; I guess the computer world will never stand-still. It's because of this that I now believe your better off purchasing a whole package deal with all the trimmings rather than waste excess money buying 'exactly' what you want in your computer for an exceedingly larger amount than you would of paid have you just stuck with the package deal.