Patch Notes Comment Thread

[Nystul]

I would have to defer to Bolty regarding frost nova. I haven't played the mage much and don't recall having frost nova beyond rank 1. However, I would be very surprised if he said that the higher ranks were replacing the lower ones in the last push. I don't recall this being the case for fireblast, which is an instant cast mage spell. I vaguely remember putting 2 different versions of fireblast on different hotkeys to see whether they had independent timers (they do not, and should not). The priest I remember more clearly (having played one to level 20+ fairly recently), and I can say that no early priest skills got replaced by their higher ranks in the last push. You always had the choice of which to use, even on instant casts and buffs. For warriors and rogues, who don't have a "mana pool" that continually increases, the skills always replaced the old ones with no exceptions that I can think of.

Perhaps the complaint is that it's not worth paying the cash to "upgrade" frost nova when the lower rank version will be superior for all practical uses?

[TheDragoon]

Perhaps the complaint is that it's not worth paying the cash to "upgrade" frost nova when the lower rank version will be superior for all practical uses?

I kind of figured that, by the volume of the complaining that was going on, that it was something more major. However, either way, I don't remember seeing documentation of how that all worked so thanks for the insight. :)

[Tal]

Paladin: the most useful auras are now spells.  Guess that is one way to get us to use the useless auras.  Depending on duration, a Paladin can now spend 110% of their time in a group buffing and healing.  I guess they crossed the line from a primarily a front line fighter to a REMF.  Again, will have to see how it plays out.

I've had a chance to test things a bit on my Pally and I can tell you that I'm not happy about the changes to the class. While I don't doubt that the Paladin was a bit overpowered in the last push they're very gimped in the present push. With the removal of the most popular seals to be auras and with one of said auras being moved to a higher level while being reduced in effectiveness, the pally is just as useful in a party. I personally thought the pally was pretty close to balanced in the last push. Could tank pretty effectively, but not as effectively as a warrior. Could heal but not nearly as well or as efficiently as a priest. Could buff but not nearly as well as a druid. And could deal damage but couldn't hope to match a warrior, rogue or *chuckle* a mage. The only change I would have made would have been to cut back on the cool down on fist of justice as this was the only skill the pally had to interrupt casters and rooters. As the paladin is now he/she can only contribute one aura to the party, can't tank nearly as well and even with the improvements to Crusader Strike he/she are still underpowered for the mana cost. Even with these kinds of tradeoffs I find the paladin not nearly as much fun to play with only a few abilities available even at later levels.

It would appear also that the stun on the first stage of charge is a chance to stun. I would say that there is a 20% chance or less to stun on Level 1 charge. I've also noticed that when a mob has been stunned it has been of very short duration. Just long enough to get off a follow up attack if you charged/rended.

[Bolty]

I kind of figured that, by the volume of the complaining that was going on, that it was something more major.

Well, statistically, it goes like this:

Level 1 Frost Nova: oh, maybe 10 damage, freezes enemy for up to 10 seconds, costs 40 mana.
Level 4 Frost Nova: oh, maybe 80 damage, freezes enemy for up to 10 seconds, costs 100 mana.

These aren't exact numbers, just giving you an idea. Why upgrade? The purpose of Frost Nova is to freeze the enemy. The damage is inconsequential (80 damage at level 38 is a pittance). Saving that 60 mana for more important things is why nobody upgrades their Frost Nova.

-Bolty

[Brother Laz]

What the patch needed to fix:

Problem: priests were boring with all their heals and cures and shields and nothing else.
Fixed: promised a 'total overhaul'. Added more heals and cures.

Granted they don't want the mez-every-monster-except-one play style of every other MMORPG but why not give priest players something else to do than just spam heal and shield. I'm thinking mind control. Did they just put it in to increase the # of class skills listed on the box or what.

Problem: druid wereforms tended to be useless because they couldn't eat or drink and DPS was too low.
Fixed: decreased rage cost when the bear's attacks miss. [and miss... and miss...] Slightly rebalanced cat form. Hat off if you notice the difference.

Totally ignored the eating and drinking thing, because in real life, animals don't eat or drink, even magical bears with horns. It's a realism thing.

Problem: warlocks were overpowered somehow. Somehow. Allegedly.
Fixed: totally ruined warlock class.

All of the channeling spells are useless now. Which means all you get to do is set voidwalker to attack, cast immo and corruption and stand there. Try shadowbolt if you have 1500 hp and are wearing a Shield Of Don't Aggro Me.

Problem: arcane missiles was overpowered somehow. Allegedly.
Fixed: the channeling 'fix' also 'fixed' mages.

Arcane missiles and blizzard are useless now, which means you get to spam fireball and frostbolt like a level 1 mofo. Someone missed the part where it says that level 30 AoE spells with that kind of mana cost should be better than your average single target projectile after all.

Problem: blink was bugged.
Fixed: removed blink.

Problem: brainwash was useless.
Fixed: removed brainwash.

Problem: shackle undead was useless.
Fixed: nerfed shackle undead.

Problem: sap was useless due to the many limitations.
Fixed: added extra limitations.

Problem: magma totem did too little damage and cost too much mana.
Fixed: decreased damage and increased mana cost.

Problem: 30 minutes cooldown on banish was just ridiculous.
Fixed: reduced cooldown to 20 minutes. That'll help.

Christ. Do they even listen to the beta testers or did they confuse the 'bug' and 'suggest' reports.

Problem: paladin was boring to play due to the lack of anything to do in combat.
Fixed: nerfed paladin so no one will play them and notice how boring they are.

Remember, they promised us 'massive paladin changes'. Seal of wrath now adds 16 hit points instead of 15 and now fades in *two* blinks of an eye. Add to this the bugged new rest states, the bugged hit point changes, the lack of talents and I'm starting to wonder if this is the patch or an accidentally released old backup copy.

[TheDragoon]

Well, if it doesn't force you to use the higher rank version of the skill, then there really isn't any reason to not buy the higher ranks, if for no other reason than completeness. I know that I, personally, would probably buy them just to have them. However, from the complaining I had heard before, it sounded like you were forced to use the higher level Frost Nova and so you were actually better off, tactically, to not buy the higher ranked skill.

[Tal]

Money (at least for me) is an issue frequently when deciding which spells to purchase. I avoided upgrading frost nova and arcane explosion in favor of higher powered fireball and arcane missile ranks. :)

[MongoJerry]

Problem: shackle undead was useless.
Fixed: nerfed shackle undead.

As an experienced priest, I'm confused by this quote. Shackle Undead was anything but useless -- except for the fact that so few undead areas are currently open in the game (I'm still waiting for the Western and Eastern Plaguelands to open up). SU worked exactly like Sleep, except it could be used on undead whereas Sleep could not. I haven't tried out SU in the new patch, because I've been leveling my new priestess. In what way was it nerfed? I hope it wasn't nerfed too badly. It was a good skill.

Problem: priests were boring with all their heals and cures and shields and nothing else.
Fixed: promised a 'total overhaul'. Added more heals and cures.

Granted they don't want the mez-every-monster-except-one play style of every other MMORPG but why not give priest players something else to do than just spam heal and shield. I'm thinking mind control. Did they just put it in to increase the # of class skills listed on the box or what.

Different players get their kicks in different ways. I find playing a priest far more interesting than I would playing a warrior, rogue, or even a mage. There are tons of stuff you can do as a priest, and what skills you use depends on whether you're solo, in a party of 2-3, or in a party of 4-5. I'm not understanding your Mind Control comment. That's a fantastic skill and they increased the range on it which should make it even more effective (and fixed some bugs associated with it). As I often think to myself and sometimes say when people whine about priests and warlocks, "Just because you don't know how to play a class doesn't mean that the class is broken."

[lemekim]

I kinda agree with Mongo here - some people may (the horror) actually like the priest play style. And shackle undead was (and someone said still is?) essentially a Sleep spell for undead. I also have seen Mongo use Mind Control quite effectively in many situations in parties; it's a good crowd control spell (in effect it can allow you to take out two monsters at once out of battle for the price of priest).

The whole channeling "nerf" - this is how channeling was in first beta push (and from what I've heard, before that too). So it's more of a bug fix if you will. Channeling as it was in second push was a bit too good. Yes, it would be nice to have some compromise - maybe make channeling cause no aggro, or half the mana cost for the channeling spells. But I would not say that it ruined warlock class; somehow people (including me) played warlock in first push, you just have to be much more aggro aware now.



I'll just add one more thing thats related to the new patch - before, druids and shamans were highly alike; hybrid classes with heals, nukes and average meleeing abilities (druid forms aside, most people did not use them in leveling anyway). Now, all the changes that were made to druid and shaman that might seem like nerfes to some people are an attempt to separate them and essentially push the Shaman into a much more melee class, and Druid into more of a healer class.

Shamans now get to wear mail at level 40, got all their weapons buffs improved, and the melee oriented totems got improved as well. The spells and heals got a bit weaker to adjust for this change. Druids got their heals improved, but their attack power in the normal form got decreased. Of course, many the former Shaman and Druid players are up in arms, since the class dynamic on which they chose to play the class last push got changed. (although I have to say I don't mind Shaman being more melee even though it clashes with his image from previous games).

So if you want a hybrid class thats more melee oriented, you can go with Shaman. If you are looking for a more of a caster hybrid, Druid is the way to go now.