9/11 coverup?

[Thecla]

I interpreted Occhi's analogy as "it's nice that you give a sh*t, but it's not really going to help much, now is it." Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I could be wrong too, but I interpreted Occhi as saying "eppie is Euro Trash and his opinion is bird #$%&."

[Chaerophon]

I interpreted Occhi's analogy as "it's nice that you give a sh*t, but it's not really going to help much, now is it." Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's more a matter of a general trend in his retorts than this response in particular.

[Occhidiangela]

Quid pro quo. :D

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

Sure, Thecla, for you! ;)

The post responded to was in the style of mouthy EuroTrash, an uncomplimentary standard for anyone to stoop to, mayhap my wording was less precise than it might have been. My observation as to the uselessness of the opinion offered, was to agree, with extra flavoring, that the "you don't vote for our Pres so what you think of him is worth . . . the decorations on the bus window."

There, is that clearer?

Eppie usually contributes value to our board, but crossing the line into "Whiney Euro Trash" mode deserves a wake up call, in my opinion. Perhaps not so in yours. Sorta like when Gris reminds me, as she does from time to time, to "keep it civil."

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

Never forget, Chaer, the relationship between analysis and anal. :blink: What metrics were you using?

Blunt can be good, gentle can be good. One picks the tool for the task at hand.

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

Chaer, it is not that someone should not hold Opinion A or Opinion B, it is just that such an opinion can indeed be worthless. Not all opinions are equal in value, and some are valueless. I like the wide variety of opinion I encounter on the Lounge, for better and for worse.

The "opinion" in question showed no original thought, and was at root merely a regurgitation of spiteful insults, typical of Whiney Euro Trash, and not in the least consistent with the Lounge Standard. You, revealingly, fail to integrate that part of the whole into your attempt to chastise me. Try again some other time, when you have the ammunition.

I will take it one step further. "Europe" talks a lot of smack, collectively, yet has done damned little to back it up since the Wall fell, though any number of anemic attempts have been made. I offer you ANY European security operation, and will show you that Europe is still sucking on the security teat of Uncle Sam.

On the bright side, there appears to be movement forward that such will, over time, change. All for the better, and about damned time. We do NOT need to keep occupying Germany, eh? The war has been over for 59 years, or 15 years, pick which one.

Until the talk is backed up by walk, the appelation fits, and the whiners must wear it. I note the national cowardice of Spain as a salient recent point.

As a caveat to this hardened exposition, I lived 12 years of my life in Europe, as a child and as an adult, and love Europe. Germany is one of my favorite places on the planet earth. Italy is fantastic, its people priceless. If you have even been to Paris, I imagine you'd like it as much as I do. Unlike some, I don't subscribe to the halo effect. BS is BS. No nationality, to include Americans, is proof from being infected by it. It is one of the occupational hazards of holding an opinion. ;)

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

and noting the varied interpretations of a "short-for-me" post, your translation is the closest to the intent.

You win: a +1 Mana Large Charm!! Weee Hoooo!

As to the borders and nationalities: No, Madam Ducky, I am NOT a foreigner. I was born in the United States, of parents who were born in the United States, one of whose mother was an immigrant, the other not, and I am an American. No Hyphen. Composite 'Merkin.

If you want to drag the "we are all foreigners" wheeze back to the bronze age, then there is no such thing as a Chilean: foreigners all!

Chile is what the Chileans made it, and make it. The fact that the imported cultural standards trumped the previous is about as surprising as the growing use of Latin in Gaul, after the Romans conquered it, yielding a corrupted mongrel language of blended Latin and Germanic (Frankish) and even Celtic roots: French.

History moves forward, with time. Change never stops, to which I will add that entropy is continuous. B)

Occhi

[Sir_Die_alot]

I don't mock somebodies faith.

Bull. In the same paragraph you used voter IQ,

No Bush also wouldn't be in office today if becoming president requires a IQ test. But it doesn't. 
I'M allready quite shocked that more or less 50 % of voters voted for that guy.

his university grades,

I would like to see his university grades (but probably they ars secret just like the ones from our crown prince)

and finnally, his faith as a slam against him.

I changed my opinion on Bush though after I saw his speech on the hurricanes in the south of the US. His solution was, and he assured this to the victims, that everybody should pray for the wind to stop.
So much wisdom, he has my vote. (if I was allowed to vote in the US)

If that wasn't a shot at his faith, what was it suppose to be?

But if a president of a big country has as only thing to say to victims of a hurricane that "we have to pray" that just doesn't do it. (religious or not).

No it doesn't. You promise disaster relief and, if you belive in a deity of some kind, pray for people's lives. This is what he has done and you mocked him for it.

If you please, would you find the speech you are talking about? I looked for it clicky but couldn't find any "pray" that wasn't preceded or followed by a promise for help. I'm betting your "objective" media source is once again slanting something you gladly gobbled up.

[--Pete]

. . . or with a dash of salt?

Hi,

Republicans also forget that we're ALL foreigners here in American . . .

Or on land, for that matter. And if you subscribe to any of the 'space borne spores' theories, then anyplace on Earth.

In junior high I made a movie by taking single frames of a map of Europe progressively colored to show the movements of peoples from the first century before through the fifth century of the common era. We're all foreigners everywhere, except maybe in the Olduvai Gorge -- and those there now are just visiting the old homestead from wherever they've moved to since.

--Pete

[Count Duckula]

As to the borders and nationalities: No, Madam Ducky, I am NOT a foreigner.  I was born in the United States, of parents who were born in the United States, one of whose mother was an immigrant, the other not, and I am an American.  No Hyphen.  Composite 'Merkin. 

If you want to drag the "we are all foreigners" wheeze back to the bronze age, then there is no such thing as a Chilean: foreigners all!

Yes, but I nearly picked a fight with someone at a voter turnout convention about immigration. I walked past this low-level Republican party stooge crowing the achievements of whichever senator he wanted to put into national office. This guy was against non-Americans flooding into the country and taking jobs away from Americans. He was also against other hot-button issues of mine: abortion, separation of church and state, the war in Iraq, NAFTA and GATT, the standard republican diatribe. I played the part of a ignorant voter until I zinged him with a few questions. ("You realize that nobody's native to America, right?") I kept after him until he nearly exploded. Then I got into a free trade argument with the Democrat candidate. ^_^

I think I was trying to say that not all Americans share the beliefs held by those in power, and I get a little titchy when someone who can't vote in the US tells me how I should be casting that vote and why. (This goes for non-US residents as well as US residents who can't be bothered to show up at the polling place and US residents who don't even have voter registration.) Yes, John Kerry IS a douchebag but I'm voting for him anyway, if nothing else than to get the current idiot out of office. (Heart of hearts, I want to vote for Cobb. I really do...)

[eppie]

If you please, would you find the speech you are talking about? I looked for it clicky but couldn't find any "pray" that wasn't preceded or followed by a promise for help. I'm betting your "objective" media source is once again slanting something you gladly gobbled up.

I don't remember where I saw it and when, but it was a news program and it was a speech of him. (subtitles, but he talked) Unless they dubbed his voice and "made him say something else" he said this.

[kandrathe]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20040919-3.html

Maybe your news service took snipets of this speech out of context?

[Hocus]

allowed to vote, your opinion on that matter is worth about as much as the bird droppings that were on the bus window this morning.

How nice, to see yet another back of the pack driver in the "Whining Euro Trash Derby."  :P 

Occhi

allowed to vote, your opinion on that matter is worth about as much as the bird droppings that were on the bus window this morning. How nice, to see yet another back of the pack driver in the "Whining Euro Trash Derby." :P Occhi

So in order to comment on a film, I have to be a movie director? In order to say that the meal I just paid for was not up to scratch, I have to be a chef?

You feel it is unfair or out of place for outside observers to comment on issues (such as the outcome of an election) that will invariably have an effect on both them and their country?

[eppie]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20040919-3.html

Maybe your news service took snipets of this speech out of context?

Well I sure do hope so, it would be a bit strange if had just said this don't you think?. And they did not take anything out of context. They just showed Bush after the hurricane.

But you know my opinions on the connection between religion and state. I mean there was some freak over here who said those hurricanes were a punishment from god. Well if I then hear Bush say these things, I guess he agrees on that. If he would think that this hurricane did not have anything to do with god, why would he say that they have to pray?
You see I just don't understand the way he wants to go with this. (but probably is was just to show the people that he is a very religious person so that they would vote for him)

[Medicine Man]

It's anybodies guess if President Bush actually believes his own myth. My feeling is that he and his party are basically roleplaying -- casting the chief as a devout man with a direct insight into what The Lord wants. Its all lip service to a demographic that is vital to the GOP's continued occupation of the White House.

All speculation about the American C-in-C aside -- were I a politician, on either side of the fence, I would rather the general public associated the multiple hurricanes with Divine Wrath rather than something more scientific, such as global warming. I imagine it could be uncomfortable for some well-heeled individuals if the population of Florida suddenly made the connection between industrial excesses and the weather. :)

[Occhidiangela]

Dear Hocus:

My opinion on any film I see, and report to you on, is worth every penny you pay for it. If you value my opinion on films in general, then you may hold my opinion in higher esteem than another who does not.

The poster in question pointed out that he could not vote in our election, yet even if he could, he would not vote. Useless. Similarly valueless statement: "If I could bed Jennifer Love Hewitt, I wouldn't." Since the stater can't bed her now, please save the breath.

As to the rest, when I see an intelligent and well grounded, well defended opinion voiced, even if it is contrary to mine, I don't generally spit on it out of hand.

In this case, given the regurgitation of soundbytes being passed off as an opinion, weapons free.

You can hold any opinion you want to. Don't ask me to respect it if it's worthless, based on fantasy, or based on BS.

Occhi

[eppie]

The poster in question pointed out that he could not vote in our election, yet even if he could, he would not vote.

are we still talking about this? Anyway I said "he has my vote"

For the rest I was not shocked or hurt by occhi's response so as far as I'm concerned we can drop the etiquette discussion.

cheers.

[Occhidiangela]

For some reason, I am not surprised. :D

And, by the way, thank you.

Occhi