The Paladin and the Shaman

[Tal]

Just wondering, have you tried using the 5 second stun to heal up twice?
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I've never been able to get two heals off with the five second stun.

[Artega]

Someone needs to leave General chat for a little while, I think. I know I was a lot like that before I stopped listening to General.

Perhaps I WAS a little hasty in my judgment, but for the most part, this thread has at least produced some thought about the various classes in terms of balance ^_^

And I don't have Runecloth Bandages. I have, at the best, Mageweave Bandages, which are 800 HP over the standard six seconds. If I recall, you can still attack while in Shielded, albeit at a very significantly reduced rate. All you'd have to do is whack us once (since we'll likely still be in melee range) to stop the bandage and leave us with a minute of un-bandageable-ness.

Divine Shield kills all negative status effects on the Paladin, so it can defeat Hamstring, allowing you to get away if you simply can't deal with a Warrior. Besides, Hamstring's only really useful with talents. Otherwise it's a subpar melee-range snare that's crap compared to most other snares.

It's not so much the five seconds, it's the fact that most other classes (if any at all) get that kind of stun at that level for FREE (well, gold cost aside.) Warriors have to invest 21 points into Protection to get that, and it's Next Melee and not instant. I'll take a ten yard range, instant-cast, and an extra fifteen seconds of cooldown time, thanks.

Sheer damage isn't always king. Hitting really hard at 4.00 speed isn't, as far as I'm concerned, as good as hitting a little less hard at 3.00 speed. You Paladins get Flurry for FREE, with a Power BONUS, and without the need for a crit to activate it. And from what I've heard, recasting removes the cumulative damage "penalty." Instead, Warriors have to spend 26 points in Fury, or Shaman have to spend 15 points in Enhancement (their best tree... lucky bastards...)

And, yeah, most Totems (especially Earthbind, even with its 15-second cooldown) ARE overpowered, and most are going to get beaten with the nerfstick. But I doubt that will happen to most Auras, and what'll happen then?

[Tal]

All you'd have to do is whack us once (since we'll likely still be in melee range) to stop the bandage and leave us with a minute of un-bandageable-ness.[right][snapback]64399[/snapback][/right]

At the cost of healing ourselves.

Divine Shield kills all negative status effects on the Paladin, so it can defeat Hamstring, allowing you to get away if you simply can't deal with a Warrior.  Besides, Hamstring's only really useful with talents.  Otherwise it's a subpar melee-range snare that's crap compared to most other snares.[right][snapback]64399[/snapback][/right]

Compared to the paladin's complete lack of any sort of hamstring? We'll take broken hamstring please.

It's not so much the five seconds, it's the fact that most other classes (if any at all) get that kind of stun at that level for FREE (well, gold cost aside.)  Warriors have to invest 21  points into Protection to get that, and it's Next Melee and not instant.  I'll take a ten yard range, instant-cast, and an extra fifteen seconds of cooldown time, thanks.[right][snapback]64399[/snapback][/right]

Except Warriors have 3 skills that interrupt casting to the paladin's one. If our Fist of Justice gets resisted we're out.

Sheer damage isn't always king.  Hitting really hard at 4.00 speed isn't, as far as I'm concerned, as good as hitting a little less hard at 3.00 speed.  You Paladins get Flurry for FREE, with a Power BONUS, and without the need for a crit to activate it.  And from what I've heard, recasting removes the cumulative damage "penalty."  Instead, Warriors have to spend 26 points in Fury, or Shaman have to spend 15 points in Enhancement (their best tree... lucky bastards...)[right][snapback]64399[/snapback][/right]

Any paladin who is PvP'ing only with Crusader Strike deserves to lose. I think though if you took a look at the damage output of Crusader strike versus the damage output of flurry you will see that it really isn't as uber as you think it is.

And, yeah, most Totems (especially Earthbind, even with its 15-second cooldown) ARE overpowered, and most are going to get beaten with the nerfstick.  But I doubt that will happen to most Auras, and what'll happen then?
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You really REALLY REALLY need to play a paladin and see just what those aura's bring to the table before you decide they need to be nerfed.

[Malakar]

How are you getting two heals out of a five second stun? Or are you saying  "twice" as "in addition to using your shielding spell"?
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Well, almost two heals. Once you get your next rank for 6 second stun I think you should be able to get two fully.

I'm just speculating here. My paladin is only level 16 currently, and I can of course only get off one heal. I was speculating that when I got to the 5-6 second stun duration, I could probably get off two heals. Perhaps with the 5 second you could use a Flash of Light instead of one Holy Light to ensure it doesn't get interrupted by counter-spells/stuns after they come out of stun.

Edit: Oh that's right, I forgot about the 1 second cooldown after you use stun. So yeah you'd need at least a 6 second stun to get off two Holy Lights.

[Rinnhart]

Well, almost two heals. Once you get your next rank for 6 second stun I think you should be able to get two fully.

I'm just speculating here. My paladin is only level 16 currently, and I can of course only get off one heal. I was speculating that when I got to the 5-6 second stun duration, I could probably get off two heals. Perhaps with the 5 second you could use a Flash of Light instead of one Holy Light to ensure it doesn't get interrupted by counter-spells/stuns after they come out of stun.

Edit: Oh that's right, I forgot about the 1 second cooldown after you use stun. So yeah you'd need at least a 6 second stun to get off two Holy Lights.
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After additional thought:

If you need heals so much that you must use the stun in this fashion, you're probably dead.

[Arnath]

Divine Protection:  This skill is utter bull#$%&, pure and through.

The one problem I have with this skill is that it can apparently be cast while stunned (one of the paladin invincibility skills can, not sure if it's this or the other one). That just seems rather stupid to me. No one else can do stuff while stunned, why can the paladin?

Arnath

[Pantalaimon]

A warlock can seduce you while stunned, a source of annoyance for many :unsure:

[Artega]

A warlock can seduce you while stunned, a source of annoyance for many  :unsure:
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What's Seduce again? All I've ever been up again in solo/small-group combat are paladins, warriors, and priests. When I see Warlocks, it's usually in a large-scale defense or raid on a town.

[Malakar]

I believe Seduce is like sleep. It's a spell cast by the Succubus minion.

[Rinnhart]

The one problem I have with this skill is that it can apparently be cast while stunned (one of the paladin invincibility skills can, not sure if it's this or the other one). That just seems rather stupid to me. No one else can do stuff while stunned, why can the paladin?

Arnath
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Wrong: Blink.

[Skandranon]

Wrong: Blink.
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To my experience, while the description claims it breaks stuns, it lies. I've only ever gotten "cannot use this while stunned" when trying to Blink.

[Rinnhart]

To my experience, while the description claims it breaks stuns, it lies.  I've only ever gotten "cannot use this while stunned" when trying to Blink.
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Then it's still bugged, and will eventually be fixed.

I've seen it used to break stun effects in the past.

EDIT: Be sure whatever "stun" effecting you is actually a stun and not a blind.

Also does not work on daze.

[Skandranon]

Be sure whatever "stun" effecting you is actually a stun and not a blind.
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One hundred percent positive. I didn't think it would be giving the "can't do this while stunned" message if it wasn't a stun, but when I performed my tests I checked the effect to make sure it was a stun anyway. As for seeing it used to break out of stun...I don't know. Of all of the people I've seen claim anywhere, especially on the official forums, that Blink breaks stun, none have ever been mages. It's entirely possible that Blink is going off just as the stun period (which is always short) ends.

[Rinnhart]

One hundred percent positive.  I didn't think it would be giving the "can't do this while stunned" message if it wasn't a stun, but when I performed my tests I checked the effect to make sure it was a stun anyway.  As for seeing it used to break out of stun...I don't know.  Of all of the people I've seen claim anywhere, especially on the official forums, that Blink breaks stun, none have ever been mages.  It's entirely possible that Blink is going off just as the stun period (which is always short) ends.
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*shrug* Then it's bugged.

[Artega]

*shrug* Then it's bugged.
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And they'll fix it when they fix the Intercept bug and the other bugs that people have found and I've forgotten about.

[Rinnhart]

And they'll fix it when they fix the Intercept bug and the other bugs that people have found and I've forgotten about.
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Indeed.