utiladin

[swirly]

So I have a paladin who I only ever play with a friend of mine who plays a warrior. Since this is the case, it seems to me that she is going to be the tank in most situations. I often find myself healing when we play and often when we group. It seems to be my main purpose, to keep us alive. So this makes me wonder about making a paladin whos main purpose is providing utility to a group. Buffs, heals, stuns, and anything else that I can think to get the paladin to do. So I've mocked up a build with this in mind.

Holy Mastery

Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Divine Wisdom Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3

Holy Total: 24

Protection Mastery

Improved Seal of Justice Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Shield Specialization Rank 5

Protection Total: 22

Retribution Mastery

Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5

Retribution Total: 5

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60


My first goal with the build was to get Improved Seal of Justice with the thought that the stun from it might be nice. Not sure if the stun happens enough to really be worth it, but I'm thinking about trying it. I figure Improved Blessing of Might and Improved Blessing of Wisdom are two good buffs to cast on others. (I go back and forth with them on myself) Improved Devotion Aura gives defense to everyone and so I figure that that should be good to have. Spiritual Focus, Divine Favor, Illumination, Improved Holy Light all seem useful for healing and Divine Wisdom should help me be able to keep it up longer. Improved Blessing of Protection just seems like a natural thing to get for the build, lots of utility there I think. So that just leaves Toughness and Shield Specialization. I like the idea of being able to take hits better myself, but it kind of doesn't fit the build. I'm not sure if a character like this will ever be drawing enough aggro to be getting hit. So they seem questionable, yet I don't know what else to put the points into since I need enough spent in that tree to get to Improved Seal of Justice.

My paladin experience is very limited and so I have no idea how viable this build is. I'm looking for any opinions people have on it and any ideas/suggestions they might have as well. Basically I'm just putting it up for general discussion. I've not tried any of the build at all yet so I don't really have a clue about it. (my current talents are just spent here and there with not much thought, I need to respec) So tell me what you think.

[swirly]

After some reading, I have decided to take 3 points out of Shield Specialization, it seems that it really doesn't do much good, especially without the other shield talents. 1 of those points I want to put into Blessing of Sanctuary, but I'm not sure about the other two. I'm also considering getting rid of Improved Blessing of Might. It might be better to just use Blessing of Sanctuary and Blessing of Wisdom and my two blessings. So if I do those two changes that puts me here:

Holy Mastery

Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Divine Wisdom Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3

Holy Total: 24

Protection Mastery

Improved Seal of Justice Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Shield Specialization Rank 2

Protection Total: 20

Total
Total Points Spent: 44
Level Required: 53


Which means I would have seven more talent points to spend. I'm not sure where to put those though. I considered dropping Illumination so that I would have enough talent points to get to Repentance, but I'm not sure that Repentance is work investing 11 talent points just for it. So I'm inclined to keep Illumination and just find a place for the other 7 points. I could also keep Blessing of Might and then just have to find somewhere for 2 talent points, but I don't know if there is a better place for them or not. Any ideas?

[swirly]

From what I have been reading, mobs become immune to stun after 2 procs of it. So Seal of Justice is pretty much only ever going to stun a mob twice and then it will be pointless and your hammer of justice will also not work. So this dampens my spirit about the build quite a bit. Back to the drawing board I guess. I have no idea what to do with my Pally though. Any suggestions what would be good for a Pally who always plays with a Warrior?

[swirly]

Four posts in a row, you can really tell that I'm struggling with the talents for this character can't you? So currently I am thinking of this build.

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Divine Wisdom Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Holy Total: 24

Retribution Mastery
Deflection Rank 2
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Retribution Total: 17

Protection Mastery
Toughness Rank 5
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Protection Total: 10

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

It has the same healing as before, because I think I like having the ability to heal a good amount. The warrior I team with seems to go two handed alot and I was thinking of going two handed as well so Improved Devotion Aura seems like something that would be helpful to both of us since we won't have shields to pump our defense. Toughness is pretty much the same thing except just for me. Deflection is also just more defense and mainly just where I threw the 2 points I had left over. Improved Blessing of Might and 2H Specialization are more damage obviously. I'm thinking that I'll use Seal of the Crusader because 2H weapons tend to be slower and so I think I'll like speeding them up some. So with that, the talent seems like a good idea as well. Thats the rough idea anyway. It feels a bit generic and boring to me, but thats kind of the feeling I get for the character in general. Maybe it will grow on me with time though. Anyway, does that talent distrobution look decent to everyone?

[Tal]

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Divine Wisdom Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Holy Total: 24[right][snapback]69614[/snapback][/right]

This is fine IMHO - if you were to have extra points laying around I would pick up improved flash of light. Granted the heal output of Flash of light isn't much but it really helps if you put blessing of light on the target of healing and chain flash of light. (And yes I know they fixed fllash of light - it can still be useful :)

Retribution Mastery
Deflection Rank 2
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Retribution Total: 17 [right][snapback]69614[/snapback][/right]

Going that deep into retribution and not picking up seal of command is a waste IHMO. If I were building it I would drop Improved Seal of Crusader and deflection. Pick up Seal of Command (really really shines with a two hander) and put whatever else you wish in Seal of the Crusader (though I would put it in vengeance).

Protection Mastery
Toughness Rank 5
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Protection Total: 10

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60
[right][snapback]69614[/snapback][/right]

This is okay.

[vor_lord]

From what I have been reading, mobs become immune to stun after 2 procs of it.  So Seal of Justice is pretty much only ever going to stun a mob twice and then it will be pointless and your hammer of justice will also not work.  So this dampens my spirit about the build quite a bit.  Back to the drawing board I guess.  I have no idea what to do with my Pally though.  Any suggestions what would be good for a Pally who always plays with a Warrior?
[right][snapback]69611[/snapback][/right]

I am pretty sure it is three, not two. Last night on two different occasions I got three stuns from a single cast of seal of justice. It may appear to be two because Hammer of Justice is counted as one of the procs for the cap :angry: Can anyone else confirm exactly how many stuns max you out?

Regardless your conclusion is correct--improved seal of justice just isn't so hot due to the stun count cap. My original talent plan was to use improved seal of justice as a core part of the build--imagine my disappointment to find that even without the talent it runs out of procs.

The talent still helps by pushing your 3 stuns to be soon. Then you can use it effectively until you hit the stun cap, then switch. My biggest beef with this is that I want Hammer of Justice to be available and useful when I need it, not to waste it on an immune mob.

[Tal]

I am pretty sure it is three, not two.  Last night on two different occasions I got three stuns from a single cast of seal of justice.  It may appear to be two because Hammer of Justice is counted as one of the procs for the cap  :angry: Can anyone else confirm exactly how many stuns max you out?

Regardless your conclusion is correct--improved seal of justice just isn't so hot due to the stun count cap.  My original talent plan was to use improved seal of justice as a core part of the build--imagine my disappointment to find that even without the talent it runs out of procs.

The talent still helps by pushing your 3 stuns to be soon.  Then you can use it effectively until you hit the stun cap, then switch.  My biggest beef with this is that I want Hammer of Justice to be available and useful when I need it, not to waste it on an immune mob.
[right][snapback]69632[/snapback][/right]

I'm fairly certain that it is more than two procs. Also keep in mind that Hammer of Justice has a chance of being resisted (albeit a small one).

[Kevin]

I'm fairly certain that it is more than two procs. Also keep in mind that Hammer of Justice has a chance of being resisted (albeit a small one).
[right][snapback]69637[/snapback][/right]

I believe it is 3 per a time frame. When fighting the boss in Gnomeregan I got 3 stuns on him and then they didn't proc for a long time. After Treesh died I was able to proc one more on him. Most non elites don't last longer than 3 stuns, but I have seen 3 on a raptor before (charge, concussion blow, and a proc off my revenge) with Gnolack. So I'm pretty sure it is more than 2 as you said. I know I've also had two revenges proc and still been able to concussion on a couple of occasions as well. But 3 feels right.


When we did our little raid the Onxyia guards were stunned more than 3 times but they my be a special case as several of the stuns were coming from an NPC.

It might also just be a duration mitigation thing as well, each successive stun loses a second or something. This would wipe out most stun skills after 3 stuns.

[Tal]

I believe it is 3 per a time frame.  When fighting the boss in Gnomeregan I got 3 stuns on him and then they didn't proc for a long time.  After Treesh died I was able to proc one more on him.  Most non elites don't last longer than 3 stuns, but I have seen 3 on a raptor before (charge, concussion blow, and a proc off my revenge) with Gnolack.  So I'm pretty sure it is more than 2 as you said.  I know I've also had two revenges proc and still been able to concussion on a couple of occasions as well.  But 3 feels right.
When we did our little raid the Onxyia guards were stunned more than 3 times but they my be a special case as several of the stuns were coming from an NPC.

It might also just be a duration mitigation thing as well, each successive stun loses a second or something.  This would wipe out most stun skills after 3 stuns.
[right][snapback]69640[/snapback][/right]

Three stuns sounds about right to me as well. It also appears to be 3 stuns per source. We can test this easily with a cadre of warriors and paladins on the same target to see how many stuns can be dropped. :)