Talent Procs

[Zarathustra]

I've always enjoyed variant characters, or at the very least something outside the run-of-the-mill cookie cutters out there. In the D2X beta I loved my elemental Druid. Later I had a ton of fun with my Inferno-only Sorc. My first (and favorite) WoW character is a 40/11 Balance/Restoration Druid, and lately I've been messing around with a Warrior.

Now, one huge thing I've noticed about warriors is the bias towards heavy-hitting 2H weapons. The slower the weapon speed, the better, since it means you're hitting harder per swing and increasing the damage of instant-hit skills. So I came up with the idea of dual-wielding either swords or maces and working up the Arms tree to their respective specializations.

I created a Human warrior in order to cash in on the weapon skill bonuses they receive. Originally I was thinking Sword, for the extra attacks as I go. But the more I looked at the stats on Mace Specialization, the more it got me to thinking.

5/5 Mace Specialization: Hits have a 6% chance to stun the enemy for 3 seconds.

Wait... that doesn't say "have a chance to stun," but rather gives a hard number! Can it be? It this a "proc"-type effect that isn't modified by weapon speed?

Through testing, it seems that is truly the case. Tannen is currently dual-wielding Mugs O' Hurt for their 1.7 (1.8?) swing-speed, and there is rarely an enemy that ISN'T stunned a few times over the course of a fight (3 seconds completely out of combat, interrupting spells). I've equipped slower 2-handed maces, kept my weapon skill at the same level, and seen a far lesser number of stuns over a given period of time.

Additionally, Tannen is a Blacksmith and making his own weightstones. Between those and some Impact enchantments, he's benefitting more dual-wielding maces than if they had been applied to a single 2h mace.

My question is twofold. First, has anyone else had similar experiences that would indicate Mace Specialization's stun is not influenced by weapon speed? And second, does this apply to Sword Specialization as well?

[lemekim]

Yes, the 6% chance to stun for mace spec indeed seems to be a pure chance for each hit, so faster weapons really benefit from this the most.

The sword spec on the other hand is a bit less straightforward in that regard. While it also is a pure 6% chance to hit again, so you proc more often with faster weapons, these faster hits will also do less damage, so while you get off more procs, they also do less damage per proc, which evens out in the end.

I am not sure however, when dual-wielding, if the offhand sword procs do damage based on the weapon that proced them, or they do main-hand damage (or if they can proc at all?). Dual-wielding sword-spec warrior is a rare combo, but maybe I will test it out on test server.

[Artega]

The mace specialization proc is a flat chance, much like critting.

It seems to be limited by the standard ppm rule; probably 3-5 ppm. Testing on an Orc Warrior, it proc'd seven times in two minutes. It is not subject to diminishing returns; every proc is a three-second stun.

It still sucks, though. Without a large two-hander to use for Mortal Strike, Overpower, and Whirlwinds, you'll be doing subpar damage, and having a weaponswap macro is far more trouble than it's worth.

You're free to do what you find most enjoyable, but be aware that you'll do far more damage and do it much more efficiently if you do the standard 31/20 Arms/Fury build using two-handed axes.

[acidjax]

I've always enjoyed variant characters, or at the very least something outside the run-of-the-mill cookie cutters out there.[right][snapback]77790[/snapback][/right]

A dual-wield warrior might be a variant you'd enjoy. Besides procs from weapon specialization there's something else that dual wield has going for it: more overpower usage. You could try equipping the slowest, hardest hitting weapon in your mainhand and the fastest weapon in your offhand. The idea here is to "proc" the enemy to dodge one of your attacks so you can use overpower more often overall. Perhaps you can even look into making a weapon switch macro so that when an enemy dodges, you can switch from your pair of very fast maces to a slow two-hander.

The upcoming warrior talent changes that buff dual wielding may make dual wielding more fun and effective.

My question is twofold.  First, has anyone else had similar experiences that would indicate Mace Specialization's stun is not influenced by weapon speed?  And second, does this apply to Sword Specialization as well?
[right][snapback]77790[/snapback][/right]

1. I have a rogue with the mace specialization talent and I'm guessing it works the same way. From what I've seen, the stun chance is indeed a set percentage rather then PPM. The stun from mace mastery procs are however affected by diminishing returns. I believe they are on a different timer then revenge/concussive blow stuns.

2. As of a couple patches ago, when you procced an extra hit with your offhand weapon, the extra hit was often an extra mainhand hit. This may be something to look into.

[Kevin]

2.  As of a couple patches ago, when you procced an extra hit with your offhand weapon, the extra hit was often an extra mainhand hit.  This may be something to look into.
[right][snapback]78039[/snapback][/right]

It seems to still work that way. I currently have a Thrash blade in my off hand. It will hit for 60 or so damage on a normal hit. When it procs it seems I hitting for the 120 damage of my main hand weapon so I either crit with the Trash or the proc applies to the main hand. I'll need to dig the combat log more on it though.

[Artega]

Fury still won't beat the cookiecutter Arms specs, but it's getting a very nice improvement once 1.50 goes live.

Phantom Blade is an EXCELLENT weapon choice for a dual-wielding Warrior (or Sword Rogue :) ) in the early forties and into the early fifties. It has very high damage, and also has a pretty nice proc.

Be aware that you'll NEVER out-damage a cookiecutter Warrior*, but I find dualling more fun than being a cookiecutter :)

Some suggestions: Get Voone's Vice Grips from the Warlord's Command quest. They're mail, sure, but the +2% to-hit will be greatly needed. Likewise, get the Battleborn Armbraces from Rend, and get a Lionheart Helm (which is far easier said than done, of course.) This will bring you up to +5% to-hit, as well as +3% crit.

*I think it would be possible to out-damage a cookiecutter Arms Warrior under ONE condition: you have Death Wish, Recklessness, and Enrage active all at once. This would be critting every hit (refreshing Flurry and Deep Wounds in the process) at a +60% damage bonus. This would also mean your Armor and Resistances would be -20% and you'd take 30% more base damage from all attacks and spells. Still, just thinking about that combination makes me grin :)