WoW IRC Dev Chat

[Treesh]

I think you got lucky then.  My 58 druid is not at nearly 5400, more like 4500 in his heal gear, though I passed up 15 intel on pants in favor of Abysal Pants of Restoration.
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I forgot to mention that she does also have the full five points in ancestral knowledge which boosts her maximum mana by 5%. But yes, I have been quite lucky with drops on her for the most part. :) It also helps that Blizzard likes to put intell on a lot of mail. :D

[Treesh]

I'm just saying I wouldn't do it strath level stuff in greens and blues solo healing unless I was really confident in my teammates.  I'm not saying its impossible, it would just probably exceed my frustration level.  E.g., during the strath run I'm using as an example, we explained the cannons to the hunter.  We thought he understood, but then didn't do it right.  A green/blue shaman wipes, only my purples and the purples on the MT saved the day.  That was an important save, because we did wipe on Balthazzar when he MC'd the tank twice (I don't think many parties are going to survive that), but since my ankh was still up, we were able to finish the run (which was nice, since Bal dropped the Truefaith pattern and I made more then 100g :) )
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Just wanted to update here. We took in a warrior, hunter, Mogo in her healing gear, a warlock and a rogue into scarlet strat tonight. We wiped on Balthazzar once, but I had either a soulstone or my self res up so we regrouped and took him down easy the second attempt. Then we went back through the undead to deal with the cannoneer, through all those stupid sorcerers. The tank didn't have purples, Mogo doesn't have purples. I don't think anyone in the group had any purples. :) It was thoroughly enjoyable, even if our rogue had connection issues starting just before the archivist.

Of course, the biggest help (and something you mentioned anyway) is that I wasn't playing with idiots. *much love to the Terenas folk*

[Watto44]

On the whole Decursive thing...

I don't really have an issue with decursive. It's definately not necessary - in my experience, which includes being part of a pair debuffing (my druid and a mage, neither of us with decursive) an entire raid on kazzak - for PvE and I don't think it really affects PvP too much. (Although it was handy in PvP, I've finally gotten my UI under control and don't feel the small increase in reaction time is that important. Mind you, since it's been implemented in CTRA the debate seems achademic.)

Some things which I think should be looked at are the family of mods that grabs information from your combat log and splashes it across your screen. I use them, but would be a lot happier if they got the heave-ho. (SpellAlert - and it's progeny: Quu et al - are the major example here, although I guess you could include the various CTRA alerts as well.) These mods have a major impact in PvP, although I'm unsure about their use in PvE. (I've found it handy a couple of times in PvE, but it's nothing to sing about. Of course, the various boss alerts in CTRA are considered essential, but the pros and cons of CTRA alerts are a little different since the various boss abilities they relate to are on a static timer.) I would like to see blizzard improve the combat log customisation options - increasing the number of character animations would be nice too, but lets be realistic :P - and remove SpellAlert and it's ilk. :)

There is also a growing group of mods that, if they aren't bots, they're damn close. IotA/IotH are great examples of this. This is where I draw the line. What's next? A mod that detects when your target gains PoM/NS and casts dispell/purge whenever you hit the movement key? (I believe there was a mod that did this, but blizzard broke it. Unfortunately, the author of IotA has found a very simple work around and it won't be long before various auto-debuff mods re-emerge.) A mod that autocasts sinister strike/backstab as long as you're on the run?

The interesting thing about mods is that WoW has long since passed the point where certain mods are considered essential. Venture forth without CTRA or Quu? Unthinkable! The idea of watching another person's mana bar/toon/the mob seems to have become anachronism, replaced instead by a drinking bird that spams one key over and over while the player gets a drink.

At the point where a mod ceases to improve play experience and starts to replace it, problems develope and blizzard should, in my opinion, step in.

Whoah! Sorry all, that was an unexpected rant! :w00t:

PS. My shammy main healed 5 man Scarlet Strat in greens and blues - with a druid as MT. :D

As you're both saying, it's more about the group than the gear for the 5-15 toon instances. A good group in greens and blues will cruise through any of them, primarily since tight control of aggro will preserve far more mana, and increase healing efficiency - than is gained from better equipment.

[Xanthix]

Eliminating Decursive by breaking some of its functionality is infeasible.

Decursive does several things:
1) Scan party members for debuffs
2) Decide which curing spell to cast on which party member
3) Cast the spell on the party member

Number 1 can't be disabled or the built-in target/party/raid interfaces won't be able to show you buffs and debuffs.

Number 2 can't be disabled because it is just if/then statements and basic logic. If party member 2 has a magic debuff then select Dispel Magic, etc.

Disabling number 3 would prevent all AddOns and macros from casting spells. Then the only way to cast spells would be from the spellbook and built-in action bars.

Either of these changes represent huge reductions in features and would break mods and macros for a huge percentage of the playerbase.


These reasons and more are why Blizzard can't easily break Decursive and similar mods, and why they are going the alternate route of increasing the cost of curing spells to be a percentage of base mana.

[Xanthix]

Some things which I think should be looked at are the family of mods that grabs information from your combat log and splashes it across your screen. I use them, but would be a lot happier if they got the heave-ho.
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What is your complaint with these mods? All they are doing is taking information already displayed to you and making it more visible. They are just suped-up versions of a mod that increases the font size of your combat log, in my opinion. And they are very helpful for people with bad vision or disabilities that prevent them from reading the scrolling combat log on the fly.

I understand you comment that mods go too far when they replace play experience instead of merely improve it, but these mods seem to fall into the latter category. Just my thoughts.

[Malakar]

Indeed. Not to mention the fact that disabling UI support for decursive means nothing. It can always be hacked to work. Better that Blizzard not disable UI support that may interfere with other useful addons, and not "encourage" players to reverse engineer the game.

So while the increased mana cost sucks, it's the better way to go.

[Lissa]

I don't really have an issue with decursive. It's definately not necessary - in my experience, which includes being part of a pair debuffing (my druid and a mage, neither of us with decursive) an entire raid on kazzak - for PvE and I don't think it really affects PvP too much. (Although it was handy in PvP, I've finally gotten my UI under control and don't feel the small increase in reaction time is that important. Mind you, since it's been implemented in CTRA the debate seems achademic.)[right][snapback]98568[/snapback][/right]

You've never played a Warlock under PvP situations then. Decursive is a HUGE detriment to Warlocks in PvP (where 3 of their 6 instant cast damage spells are DoTs). We spend 3 seconds putting up Corruption and Siphon Life and a Priest dispells both in a matter of a second (and at a lot less cost in mana, even with the doubling in cost). Decursive made it too easy for someone to cleanse off the DoTs that are put up by a Warlock (and for Priests for that matter). Decursive gives a huge advantage in PvP because now you simply just setup an easy used key or right click and start removing debuffs from everyone around you without having to manually target them.

[Malakar]

You've never played a Warlock under PvP situations then.  Decursive is a HUGE detriment to Warlocks in PvP (where 3 of their 6 instant cast damage spells are DoTs).  We spend 3 seconds putting up Corruption and Siphon Life and a Priest dispells both in a matter of a second (and at a lot less cost in mana, even with the doubling in cost).  Decursive made it too easy for someone to cleanse off the DoTs that are put up by a Warlock (and for Priests for that matter).  Decursive gives a huge advantage in PvP because now you simply just setup an easy used key or right click and start removing debuffs from everyone around you without having to manually target them.
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Perhaps the real issue here is that Warlocks' DoTs are simply too susceptible to dispel. After all, the spell *can* be manually cast with the quickness.

[Watto44]

Eliminating Decursive by breaking some of its functionality is infeasible.

Decursive does several things:
1) Scan party members for debuffs
2) Decide which curing spell to cast on which party member
3) Cast the spell on the party member

Number 1 can't be disabled or the built-in target/party/raid interfaces won't be able to show you buffs and debuffs.

Number 2 can't be disabled because it is just if/then statements and basic logic. If party member 2 has a magic debuff then select Dispel Magic, etc.

Disabling number 3 would prevent all AddOns and macros from casting spells. Then the only way to cast spells would be from the spellbook and built-in action bars.
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That's good to know. My tekaknowlegicamal knowhows isn't that great.

Lissa: You're right, I never have. Thanks for the info. Dispelling is an issue all caster classes have to deal with to a greater or lesser degree. Unfortunately, warlocks get the shaft and get hurt most by dispells, and thus most by decursive. I should have thought of this, but my experience of warlocks is limited to reading 'Warlock's Shadow Bolt crits you for....ahh, who cares, your dead either way'. :D Consider my distaste extended to decursive. B)

What is your complaint with these mods? All they are doing is taking information already displayed to you and making it more visible. They are just suped-up versions of a mod that increases the font size of your combat log, in my opinion. And they are very helpful for people with bad vision or disabilities that prevent them from reading the scrolling combat log on the fly.
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Good point about those with visual disabilities. However, I still don't like them. I think - unless you're using them to compensate for a visual difficulties - everyone who uses them should try playing without them for one day of pvp. The changes to your game experience and performance are noticable. I for one found that a degree of sloppiness entered my game: I missed a couple of perception calls (and payed for it: mage's pyroblast crits you for...lots) and waisted countless charges.

While the effects of spellalert are a little subtle, they are definately noticable. The fact of the matter is that, even resized and organised, you're going to miss things in the combat log. You can't have your eyes glued to it constantly and things are going to slip by. (And before anyone asks, I do know you can mod up your combat log to clarify targets and remove the spam.) Thinking about it, with Lissa's coments in mind, spellalert fulfills a similar function to decursive: allows for efficient and precise gameplay that you cannot really achieve without it. You can reach a level of efficiency and precision without it, even a close level, but you cannot match it.

However, it's probably more a personal thing than anything else. I feel that spellalert changes game experience too much, but other's will probably disagree. :D

[Quark]

After all, the spell *can* be manually cast with the quickness.
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No it can't. Not even close.

With CTRA, I can constantly hit my '`' key (what I bound it to). If there's nothing to do, it does nothing and I keep doing whatever. If there's something to do, it does it.

Without CTRA's version of decursive, I have to first see if anyone has a debuff I can cure. That in itself requires a Raid panel of some sort, CTRA's making it much easier than any default UI. Then I move the mouse over and pick the target. Then I have to find the correct dispel option. It's just "Remove Curse" for Mages, but for other classes they have multiple dispels for different purposes. Then you add in priorities, watching for cooldowns, etc, etc ...

Now, some people can do that quick. Very quick. But don't fool yourself into thinking they do it at an AI's speed.

[Malakar]

Now, some people can do that quick.  Very quick.  But don't fool yourself into thinking they do it at an AI's speed.
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Of course not; that was not my implication. I was responding in regards to Warlocks' DoTs, which whether dispelled in a split second or a few seconds will do only a small fraction of their damage.

[Chesspiece_face]

Without CTRA's version of decursive, I have to first see if anyone has a debuff I can cure. 
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another way they have tried to counter Decursive this patch is to add the Interface option to only show debuffs that you can dispell. you no longer have to check, if you see a debuff and have that checked in the options you can dispell it.