Playing a priest everybody knows how important a good mana regenaration is. Yesterday I had a discussion with another priest about trinkets. He is very well equiped, wearing the complete T2 Set and other BWL items. So wondered why he is still wearing the Darkmoon Blue Dragon Card, http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40830 .
He explained:
If you continue casting while you get a innervate from a druid:
Innervate: 100% mana regeneration * 4
T2 Set + Meditation + Innervate: 130% mana regeneration * 4
T2 Set + Meditation + trinket proc: 130% mana regeneration
T2 Set + Meditation + trinket proc + Innervate: 230% mana regeneration * 4
For me this looks like a bug, or at least this is not what the tooltips say. Can someone reproduce this behavior ingame? Sadly I am not well equiped to do this on my own.
ladget
p.s: sry for my bad english, but this one of the best wow resources i know
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The three-piece trancendence set bonus, meditation and innervate have indeed been confirmed to stack. I'm not sure if the mealstrom proc stacks too but it seems likely.
Why do you think the mealstrom card is a bad endgame trinket by the way? It scales with gear due to its dependence on spirit, so that would mean it's allways good right?
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While it is true that all those goodies stack, I dunno about the trinket. I tend to follow the popular logic of why should I get a random proc that half the time won't proc until we're rezzing up after a fight, when I could get a comparable amount of mana in a steady tick from Mindtap Talisman or Shard of the Scale? The fact that Innervate stacks with the card doesn't seem to be a big deal, as I get an Innervate maybe once a week.
Of course, I have none of the trinkets in question, so it's just a theory question for me.
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Xanthix,Feb 10 2006, 11:31 AM Wrote:While it is true that all those goodies stack, I dunno about the trinket. I tend to follow the popular logic of why should I get a random proc that half the time won't proc until we're rezzing up after a fight, when I could get a comparable amount of mana in a steady tick from Mindtap Talisman or Shard of the Scale? The fact that Innervate stacks with the card doesn't seem to be a big deal, as I get an Innervate maybe once a week.
Of course, I have none of the trinkets in question, so it's just a theory question for me.
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Because, by god, as a shadow priest, that card is beautiful. I need more spirit, now :)
Seriously, I have not had a regret with this card yet. There are times I would love it to proc, and there are times it procs where it's not as useful as it could be, but .. man .. I love seeing [Aura of the Blue Dragon]
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When the card was glitched and would proc off such things like spamming Find Herbs, I would say it's worth it. Like Xanthix said, i would prefer a steady stream of mana rather than relying on luck to keep the MT up :ph34r:
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ima_nerd,Feb 10 2006, 03:02 PM Wrote:When the card was glitched and would proc off such things like spamming Find Herbs, I would say it's worth it. Like Xanthix said, i would prefer a steady stream of mana rather than relying on luck to keep the MT up :ph34r:
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I would say that you should never rely on any piece of equipment, really. This is just so damned nice to have, it's just silly not to consider it. Course, I also have a Shard of the Scale.
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It's not really about the super regen you can get from innervate. I play a level 60 resto druid in a BWL going guild (and thus I'm an healing/innervate bot) and in my experience, innervate by itself is more then enough. The problem with innervate is it's very long cooldown. What this trinket does is give you a "light" version of innervate, without bothering a druid for it. In long fights this is crucial, as every scrap of mana will count the longer the fight goes on. Let's compare.
Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 60
Equip: 2% chance on successful spellcast to allow 100% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting for 15 sec.
and
Innervate (druid talent, requires 30 points inrestoration)
5% of Base Mana, 30 yd range
Instant cast 6 min cooldown
Increases the target's Mana regeneration by 400% and allows 100% of the target's Mana regeneration to continue while casting. Lasts 20 sec.
As can be immediately observed innervate is a lot more efficient, doing 4x as much regen and 5 seconds longer to boot. the downside is, as said, the cooldown.
although comparing them is not really an issue, Generally innervate gives back 50-75% of a full mana bar on a well equipped priest, and 75-100% on a druid (we druids tend to have relatively less int and more spirit compared to cloth users). The point of the trinket is, it costs no mana, and it's effect is random. However, through the use of different spells you can get it to proc and restore a fair bit of mana. although any caster can certainly make use of it, the class which can make the most use of it is a class spamming 'small' spells (low casting time for more procs/minute) having a lot of spirit (for more regen). A priest who does not need an innervate is a very good priest indeed, leaving druids open to innervate themselves.
I can't really compare the two. we only have one Blue dragon card, owned by a resto druid. He says it doesn't proc often for him in pve (we resto druids generally mostly use the very slow cast healing touch) but it shines in pvp.
As for the reported "bug": it doesn't really matter. Innervates only occur once a fight, normally, and when it does it gives enough mana to finish said fight. If fights are ultra-long a healer rotation is set up anyhow to allow people to regen mana.
Bottem line is, I wouldn't use the trinket for just the "bug". It in itself is nice enough to wear for any caster.
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Crusader,Feb 20 2006, 01:57 PM Wrote:doing 4x as much regen and 5 seconds longer to boot It's 5x as much regen. (Yeah the wording of the skill description is misleading.)
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02-22-2006, 07:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2006, 07:31 AM by kershner.)
If I may:
I wear the Blue Dragon trinket and love it (60 UD Priest, currently trekking through BWL).
It has to be compared to other 'good' mana regen trinkets to keep the discussion in scope.
On average, I regen approximately 100 mana per tick (and it stacks with Meditation, etc as discussed before). As such when this procs I will regenerate 750 more than I otherwise would have as long as I stay within the 5 sec rule.
750 Mana = 341 secs for Mindtap Talisman = 234 secs for Shard of the Scale
With a 2% proc rate, that means that on average there will be one proc per 50 casts (obviously a statistical simplification).
341 secs = One cast per 6.8 secs for Mindtap Talisman
234 secs = One cast per 4.7 secs for Shard of the Scale
As such, for any fight in which one would cast spells rapidly in sequence more often than the time periods described above, the Blue Dragon trinket is uniformly better than those noted.
Three additional points:
1. The mana per 5 secs trinkets apply mana continuously whether you need it or not, it is flat regen. The Blue Dragon trinket is 'spikier' statistically, but applies regen in a large burst primarily when spam casting. As such the Blue Dragon trinket is more likely to provide its full regen when it is most needed.
2. Because the Blue Dragon trinket is a 'proc', the user's behavior can be altered based on the occurance of the proc. When it goes off, one actively chooses to continue casting rather than to intersperse long pauses to regen mana. This alteration of behavior greatly improves the trinket's utility and improves the overall performance of the raid group. 'Flat' regen trinkets are passive rather than active and do not allow for player adjustment (skill) to improve their utility.
3. Because the Blue Dragon trinket is dependent on Spirit, it 'scales' as gear improves which is something neither of the above will do. Thus this level of regen represents the minimum which my character can reasonably expect from it.
-kersh
Dehmien | 60 UD Priest | Stonemaul
P.S. In-guild tests have confirmed that Meditation, 3-Piece Transcendence, Spirit Tap and Innervate all stack with the trinket: 280% Regen * 4 (and doubled Spirit)[While Casting] The key to this is to keep casting during the effects. If you stop casting and allow the 5 sec rule to pass you will return to 100% Regen (*4 with doubled Spirit). Thus in-casting regen can be higher than out-of-casting regen.
100 Mana per Tick Base -> (Approximately) 2100 Mana per Tick fully stacked
Edit: Added P.S.
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Great analysis! Now if I could only find an Ace of Beasts...
You mention the effect scaling with spirit. This trinket is indeed scalable - IMHO it is one of the few items in-game that will still be good at character level 70 in the expansion. :)
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