Blood Moor Zombies beware

[Archon_Wing]

Ok, so I've decided to start d2 again, haven't really played since the first ladder of 1.10 and don't really remember much. I think I'll start a necromancer because that is what I started playing d2 with.

So I was thinking of focusing on the good ol' bone spirit (or possibly spear) and a clay or iron golem. Not too big of a fan of bone spells, so I would like to consider other possible ways of attack. I am not sure whether to choose clay or iron, although I want to spend lots of points in the golem area. I am particular intrested in the synergy from fire golem-- a damage boost. But would I be able to get clay golem to deal significant damage?

Also, amplify damage now removes immunities. I'm quite tempted to ditch the bone spells, although I'd think normal would be hard to beat like that. Are there any daggers with good damage? Poison dagger might seem to be a nice self defense thing. It seems to not waste much mana, and I hate running out of it.

One thing I am worried about is that I won't have enough skill points to spend; seems like an awful lot of stuff to look out for!

Also about mercs; I forget if the act 2 merc auras can stack with iron golem or not.

[librarian]

Heiho,

Ok, so I've decided to start d2 again, haven't really played since the first ladder of 1.10 and don't really remember much. I think I'll start a necromancer because that is what I started playing d2 with.

a wise choice, even it's me who says so (for the very much same reason - no point in playing D2 and not playing Necro).
But you should focus first, then distribute skill points. With all the 1.1x synergy stuff around you haven't that much points to spare for experiments, at least if going poisonous or boney ways.

So I was thinking of focusing on the good ol' bone spirit (or possibly spear) and a clay or iron golem. Not too big of a fan of bone spells, ...

Why considering them then? A fresh start means you don't have that much stuff to trade and you'll have to rely on your findings. So, if you want to go bones you'll very much like to spend most of skills into them to bring on the damage. BTW Spear has better damage progression later on than Spirit in 1.1x

so I would like to consider other possible ways of attack. I am not sure whether to choose clay or iron, although I want to spend lots of points in the golem area. I am particular intrested in the synergy from fire golem-- a damage boost. But would I be able to get clay golem to deal significant damage?

In short, no.
Golems aren't designed to deal damage, even if they seem to do at first glance. Especially their punching damage is pathetic. All of them, synergies given and taken. Plus they have really poor attack speed. In fact IMHO the only one good in some way for damage is the Iron Golem, because of its inbuilt Thorns, but this one needs an item to be cast from, tends to get lost in terrain, and is of no use against ranged and/or elemental attackers.
In fact, contrary to your intentions, I'd never spend too much points into golems, but use them dependend on situation; the most useful one is always the Clay Golem for his ability to slow enemies down. Think of him as your eleventh curse and you're fine.

Also, amplify damage now removes immunities. I'm quite tempted to ditch the bone spells, although I'd think normal would be hard to beat like that. Are there any daggers with good damage? Poison dagger might seem to be a nice self defense thing. It seems to not waste much mana, and I hate running out of it.

If you go Poison with all the synergies physical damage of the dagger is nearly irrelevant. There is the possibility of using Poison Dagger and wield a nice physical damage dagger at once, but you'll focus on Crushing Blow then (AmnTir comes to mind). Forget about usual physical enhancement you may remember from other classes, that's not worth the trouble with daggers. I've tried that, and even with good equipment (ie the one you probably can't afford for some time) and a mighty merc you're still very slow and in permanent danger. Doable, but very, very tiresome.
Also forget about other elemental damage from equipment, because even the most exotic stuff won't deal sufficient damage. Nice add-on, but nothing to build a concept from.

One thing I am worried about is that I won't have enough skill points to spend; seems like an awful lot of stuff to look out for!

Right you are ;-)

Also about mercs; I forget if the act 2 merc auras can stack with iron golem or not.

IIRC the Thorns aura doesn't stack with inbuilt IG thorns. Iron Maiden would stack, but with a worse damage ratio than Amplify would. You dont want your enemies slowed down by Holy Freeze with an IG, since they'll need more time to smash their heads onto the IG then. And you won't want to give your IG a big defense via Defiance aura, since this will reduce reflected damage over time, too. The other available aurae are of no relevance.

As always, this is IMHO and AFAIK and IIRC and YMMV.

[Archon_Wing]

Thanks

Why considering them then? A fresh start means you don't have that much stuff to trade and you'll have to rely on your findings. So, if you want to go bones you'll very much like to spend most of skills into them to bring on the damage. BTW Spear has better damage progression later on than Spirit in 1.1x
In short, no.

Ah, ok. Still looking for a direct damage source

Golems aren't designed to deal damage, even if they seem to do at first glance. Especially their punching damage is pathetic. All of them, synergies given and taken. Plus they have really poor attack speed. In fact IMHO the only one good in some way for damage is the Iron Golem, because of its inbuilt Thorns, but this one needs an item to be cast from, tends to get lost in terrain, and is of no use against ranged and/or elemental attackers.

Well, I don't mind buying some cheap metal item to start out first, but it does look like clay golem is better in most situations. So I should just stick with the good ol' G mastery?

If you go Poison with all the synergies physical damage of the dagger is nearly irrelevant. There is the possibility of using Poison Dagger and wield a nice physical damage dagger at once, but you'll focus on Crushing Blow then (AmnTir comes to mind). Forget about usual physical enhancement you may remember from other classes, that's not worth the trouble with daggers. I've tried that, and even with good equipment (ie the one you probably can't afford for some time) and a mighty merc you're still very slow and in permanent danger. Doable, but very, very tiresome.

Crushing blow would be very useful. ;D So I won't really need much str, but prob a bit of dex. I'll need to look up which unique daggers have crushing blow, if any. I suppose there's always poison nova too.

IIRC the Thorns aura doesn't stack with inbuilt IG thorns. Iron Maiden would stack, but with a worse damage ratio than Amplify would. You dont want your enemies slowed down by Holy Freeze with an IG, since they'll need more time to smash their heads onto the IG then. And you won't want to give your IG a big defense via Defiance aura, since this will reduce reflected damage over time, too. The other available aurae are of no relevance.

Yea, I remember that amplify was the way to go. I am still worried about dealing damage to enemies.

As always, this is IMHO and AFAIK and IIRC and YMMV.

Indeed.

[Baajikiil]

Ok, so I've decided to start d2 again, haven't really played since the first ladder of 1.10 and don't really remember much. I think I'll start a necromancer because that is what I started playing d2 with.

Okay, just a question before I might answer any of your own questions. What are you looking to do with this necro?

If you are looking for a necro that can realistically expect to solo hell diff up to killing Baal as a non-twinked character, then you will be looking at different builds than if you were just trying to find a fun build to play around with. If you are probaly going to spend most of your time in normal, feel free to branch out and try many skills.

Personally, my favorite necro build is a simple summoner. With skel mastery/raise skeleton/skel mage maxed, and a little time spent on NM countess/NM baal, you can easily cobble together an untwinked necro capable of finishing hell diff solo. I play HC, and as such usually max dim vision as well, but the extra points could be spent in corpse explosion or revives.

Both poison or bone can also be effective in Hell, but IMHO they are harder to get off the ground in normal and NM if you are untwinked. Not impossible at all, but harder. They really come into their own in late NM and beyond, or when twinked with effective(not necessarily rare) gear.

You really need to find a focus though for a necro(or any spell caster)if you want to go far into hell; there are enough synergies that to be effective with any particular skill, it seems like your choices are actually more limited than before the synergies existed. As you choose your focus, certain things will change: for example, if you went poison, most likely lower resist would be your curse of choice in most situations, but if you use an Iron golem or skels as a main damage source, as mentioned, Amp is definitely better. With bone spells, many would suggest maxing dim vision; it will allow to kill with near impunity.

EDIT: PS: Also, all of librarian's above advice is spot on.

[Archon_Wing]

Okay, just a question before I might answer any of your own questions. What are you looking to do with this necro?

A necro that is untwinked, and holding his own in hell games. I don't intend to solo hell. Probably some mf'ing in nightmare. I suppose you need to be pretty high level to enter hell these days though.

You really need to find a focus though for a necro(or any spell caster)if you want to go far into hell; there are enough synergies that to be effective with any particular skill, it seems like your choices are actually more limited than before the synergies existed. As you choose your focus, certain things will change: for example, if you went poison, most likely lower resist would be your curse of choice in most situations, but if you use an Iron golem or skels as a main damage source, as mentioned, Amp is definitely better. With bone spells, many would suggest maxing dim vision; it will allow to kill with near impunity.

I've always thought curses suffered from larger diminishing returns after a few points. Now dim vision is something I've never though of. 20 points seems like an awful lot.;)

I must admit the traditional summoner is great, and gives more of a feel of a dark army then throwing around bones and poison. I've always liked the Christmas lights magi ;p It might cause a bit of lag though.

Do you still play D2? HC is definitely fun, although pk's sure are annoying. It's good to have a reliable party member, since well, there are a lot of dishonest folks out there. ;D