Necromancer Q's

[Taem]

I just started playing a Necromancer for the first time ever and had a few questions; I'm going with the Summoner build. Sorry if these questions have already been answered before:

1.) Can I cast Iron Maiden on my enemies and use a merc's Thorns aura at the same time?

2.) If I cast Amplify Damage on my enemies and my merc has the Thorns aura, will the enemies 'returned' damage be amplified?

3.) How does an Iron Golem's thorns ability work with a merc's Thorns aura?

4.) Since 1.09, don't Iron Golem's stay with you from game to game in case you made them out of something very rare?

4b.) Is it worth investing points into Fire Golem to increase the Iron Golems overall damage?

5.) I have no idea about skeletons or golems, but I want to make a summoner capable of withstanding Hell difficulty. Any suggestions on how many points I should put into: *Raise Skeleton, *Skeletal Mage, *Revive?




Here's how I mapped out my skill points so far:

1+ Amplify Damage (+possibly put a few points into this if the duration/range isn't enough with +skill items)
1+ Corpse Explosion (+possibly put a few points into this if the duration/range isn't enough with +skill items)
20 Skeleton Mastery
20 Revive (Is this overkill?)
6 Summon Resists (it really starts suffering from diminishing returns at this point)
1+ Iron Golem (I'm not sure how many points would be beneficial in this skill)
1+ Golem Mastery (I'm not sure how many points would be beneficial in this skill)
? Raise Skeleton (?)
? Skeletal Mage (?)

I also am going to place 106 points into Strength for Trang Ouls set hopefully later on, nothing into Dexterity because I don't plan on getting struck, and the rest into Vitality. I plan on chugging mana potions when I get crazy with the Corpse Explosion.

[librarian]

Heiho,

1) yep; inferior in damage output compared to 2), but possible

2) yep

3) doesn't stack; both use the same state, but IG's thorny state is no aura. Thorns aura will work with other minions, but not with IG; IG will only use its own thorny state

4) IG will be kept into a new game, exception is an IG casted via oskill property
However, it tends to go poof without reason in wiggly areas (ie most dungeons)

4b) no; it'll enhance punching damage, not reflected damage
As a matter of rule you never use a golem because of its punching damage. Unless you like very, very weird and nonviable builds.

5)
- first max out Raise Skel
- then max out Skel Mastery
- everything else is a matter of taste, but a maxed out CE never hurts. You, that is.

________

20 Revive is overkill. They last just three minutes. Even if you have enough monster corpses around which are worth reviving (instead of making Skels out of them or blowing them up CE-wise) the first summoned will soonly expire after you've summoned the twentieth. Plus the Revives tend to hang back unless you use Portals/Teleport.

Depending on equip I'd use all other summon spells besides RS&SM (maybe RSM as well) on sLvl1, since it is fairly easy to get about +5 via equipment from scratch.

[Taem]

- first max out Raise Skel
- then max out Skel Mastery
- everything else is a matter of taste, but a maxed out CE never hurts. You, that is.

What about Amplify Damage? More than 1-point, or will +skill items make a big difference? I'm level 22 right now and getting totally owned in Act 3 and it seems like my skeletons are dying faster than I can revive them. I've never played such a micro-manageable build as the summoner Necromancer - I'm constantly hitting hotkeys for Raise Skeleton, Skeletal Mage, Amplify Damage, Corpse Explosion, Golem, drink health potion, drink mana potion; it's insane! Watching other Necromancers, I thought I just had kick back and let my minions do the rest -hah!

20 Revive is overkill. They last just three minutes. Even if you have enough monster corpses around which are worth reviving (instead of making Skels out of them or blowing them up CE-wise) the first summoned will soonly expire after you've summoned the twentieth. Plus the Revives tend to hang back unless you use Portals/Teleport.

Depending on equip I'd use all other summon spells besides RS&SM (maybe RSM as well) on sLvl1, since it is fairly easy to get about +5 via equipment from scratch.

So 1 point into Revive is okay with +skill items? I was considering just putting 6-points into it in case I didn't have any items with +skills on them (same with Summon Resists).

What about Skeletal Mage? I was looking at their damage output and it's not that great and their health is very low. I don't know if it's worth investing fully into them - either 1-point or 20-points, no real middle ground IMO. You see, my MAIN PROBLEM thus far has been the initial killing monsters for their corpses. I thought if I invested into damage for an Iron Golem, he could kill stuff for me to raise, but apparently that doesn't work too well. And my damage is pathetic, to say the least. I honestly can't imagine how I'll survive Hell if I can't even get through Act 3, yet alone most of Act 2, by myself.

[librarian]

Heiho,

the skill plan which worked best for me was to push Skels _firstly_. You may spend a point or another into SkelMastery and Amplify just to benefit from any skill shrine or +allskill equip, but mainly maxing out the Skels at first brings you through nearly all of Normal difficulty, at least up to BigD.

Of course your main problem is to bring down those first corpses to assemble your first five or so Skels.

Your hireling is your best friend here. In fact he should be your strongest minion. If anything else fails you just hop in Act1 Bloodmoor to fulfill your needs in corpses with your own hands and some shopped weapon.

All golems are nice and each has its advantages, but they're no means for getting first corpses quickly.

For equip bully Drognan for a nice Wand. Check each Shrunkie some late monster drops to your feet. If you have enough gold collected, gamble for amulets/circlets. At the end of Normal +5 at least to summon tree is easily done from scratch with enough patience.
Alternatively equip as much MF as you can afford (Topazes in helm/armor; gambled amulet/shoes/gloves) so you find low set stuff early on. Some of these are quite Uber and even grant skills ...

[Assur]

The consensus over at the AB is that the best way to level is 1 P in Skel Mastery for every three points in Raise Skel. In the beginning Skel Mages are not needed. I usually put 1 point in Amp Dam, Decrepify and CE and have +skill for Clay Golem on weapons switch. (Summon CG first)

Revives I usually put 1 P and let +skill items take care of the rest, summon resist as needed, in the beginning 1P, CE is a wonderful skill, maxed its the best way to take you through Hell. Mercs: healing Aura and later Might.

I've seen one of my Skellies take on Lister singehandedly in Normal and survive until his brethren swarmed him.

[Archon_Wing]

What about Amplify Damage? More than 1-point, or will +skill items make a big difference? I'm level 22 right now and getting totally owned in Act 3 and it seems like my skeletons are dying faster than I can revive them.

If your minions are falling apart too fast, you can always use life tap. And make sure your golem is in the front. Recast him frequently. Do not be cheap with mana potions.
Your merc will be very important for getting the first kill, especially in nightmare and hell. Fortunately, an exceptional insight weapon will work for initial kills even in hell, so I wouldn't worry even if you lack an elite polearm. For normal mode, just buy him any old pike, maybe reroll the vendor a few times, or socket one with 3 topazes. I recommend a blessed aim merc for normal because skeletons have terrible attack rating. But honestly, some pike of the leech will take you through normal if you use your curses well. Stealth breast plate and Lore helm can do for now, or you can just stick rubies in a grey helm and armor.

If all fails, you can still run over and whack them for some more damage. (Have a gemmed crystal sword on switch) With a point in bone armor, you can still melee ok for the first part of act 3 normal. This would be typical of most spellcasters who haven't developed their skills yet or can't maintain heavy mana usage.

I only recommend 1 point in mages, revive, and summon resist. As you may have noticed, mages are pretty bad and may actually hinder you in crowded places. Summon resist has miserable diminishing returns, a good amount of + skills will be good enough. And as for revive, they don't really do much damage with the exceptions of frenzytaurs and urdars. Mostly meat shields. Your main killing skill is gonna be CE, everything else is just a way to get a few corpses going. I do have a friend that went all out on minions, and that was sorta intresting. Pretty good tank I must say, although that's a bit extreme. We're talking about over 70 minions.:P

Anyhow I recommend this
20 Skeleton (the backbone, they take the hits and keep going)
20 Skeleton Mastery
20 CE (kill stuff)
1-20 dim vision (This is really nice against those annoying gloams and also any monsters that can revive others)
1 clay golem, mastery
- The other golems aren't really very useful to me and can't beat clay golem's slow. Iron golem can be decent but can't be recasted easily and that may be the difference between life and death
one in mages, revive, summon resist, and each curse (optional-- confuse and attract aren't necessary but have their own uses. You will need decrep though)

Anyhow, to me a summoner is the easiest character if you know what you are doing (especially in hardcore) Up until the end of nightmare my necro was still using a wand and head that he found in act 1 of normal. Naturally when he actually found something, it was a blast. Boss battles in normal are annoying, but the decrep+golem (or actually iron madin+golem, if you're getting IM) does the job

[Taem]

If your minions are falling apart too fast, you can always use life tap. And make sure your golem is in the front. Recast him frequently. Do not be cheap with mana potions.
Your merc will be very important for getting the first kill, especially in nightmare and hell. Fortunately, an exceptional insight weapon will work for initial kills even in hell, so I wouldn't worry even if you lack an elite polearm. For normal mode, just buy him any old pike, maybe reroll the vendor a few times, or socket one with 3 topazes. I recommend a blessed aim merc for normal because skeletons have terrible attack rating. But honestly, some pike of the leech will take you through normal if you use your curses well. Stealth breast plate and Lore helm can do for now, or you can just stick rubies in a grey helm and armor.

If all fails, you can still run over and whack them for some more damage. (Have a gemmed crystal sword on switch) With a point in bone armor, you can still melee ok for the first part of act 3 normal. This would be typical of most spellcasters who haven't developed their skills yet or can't maintain heavy mana usage.

I only recommend 1 point in mages, revive, and summon resist. As you may have noticed, mages are pretty bad and may actually hinder you in crowded places. Summon resist has miserable diminishing returns, a good amount of + skills will be good enough. And as for revive, they don't really do much damage with the exceptions of frenzytaurs and urdars. Mostly meat shields. Your main killing skill is gonna be CE, everything else is just a way to get a few corpses going. I do have a friend that went all out on minions, and that was sorta intresting. Pretty good tank I must say, although that's a bit extreme. We're talking about over 70 minions.:P

Anyhow I recommend this
20 Skeleton (the backbone, they take the hits and keep going)
20 Skeleton Mastery
20 CE (kill stuff)
1-20 dim vision (This is really nice against those annoying gloams and also any monsters that can revive others)
1 clay golem, mastery
- The other golems aren't really very useful to me and can't beat clay golem's slow. Iron golem can be decent but can't be recasted easily and that may be the difference between life and death
one in mages, revive, summon resist, and each curse (optional-- confuse and attract aren't necessary but have their own uses. You will need decrep though)

Anyhow, to me a summoner is the easiest character if you know what you are doing (especially in hardcore) Up until the end of nightmare my necro was still using a wand and head that he found in act 1 of normal. Naturally when he actually found something, it was a blast. Boss battles in normal are annoying, but the decrep+golem (or actually iron madin+golem, if you're getting IM) does the job

Thanks Archon_Wing! This is actually exactly the kind of information I was looking for, although everyone was very helpful in this thread. I'm tempted to go with max mages, amp, and corpse explosion. I'll prolly max Amp and CE first and foremost. As for Decrepify and Iron Maiden, I can't seem to find any uses for them; maybe in Hell difficulty, IDK. When I get to Nightmare, I'm going with a Thorns merc and I already have an Insight polearm for him; I'm going to cast Amp on everything and CE bodies for maximum damage. Sounds good in theory, but we will see. I hope I can eventually get a Beast for my necro so he can also have a Grissly.

[Archon_Wing]

Thanks Archon_Wing! This is actually exactly the kind of information I was looking for, although everyone was very helpful in this thread. I'm tempted to go with max mages, amp, and corpse explosion. I'll prolly max Amp and CE first and foremost. As for Decrepify and Iron Maiden, I can't seem to find any uses for them; maybe in Hell difficulty, IDK. When I get to Nightmare, I'm going with a Thorns merc and I already have an Insight polearm for him; I'm going to cast Amp on everything and CE bodies for maximum damage. Sounds good in theory, but we will see. I hope I can eventually get a Beast for my necro so he can also have a Grissly.

You don't need to max out amp. I personally found it ok with 1 point and plus skills, and adding a few points gives you a pretty big radius already. Decrep is useful against bosses. Since you're playing hardcore, you'll need it for ancients in nightmare and hell.

Might or blessed aim is better than thorns imo since monsters do little damage compared to their health, and of course damage return only works for physical attacks.

Beast would definitely give you a huge damage boost, but it is quite expensive and I'm not sure you trust pubbies with trading that kind of stuff.

[Assur]

Might is definitely the best aura. If you are interested in Thorns you could have an Edge bow on weaponsswitch (or go all the way and become a Throw/Bowmancer). Nature's Peace and Wispprojector are very useful if you happen to aquire them for the Spirit charges.

[Taem]

Might is definitely the best aura. If you are interested in Thorns you could have an Edge bow on weaponsswitch (or go all the way and become a Throw/Bowmancer). Nature's Peace and Wispprojector are very useful if you happen to aquire them for the Spirit charges.

Alright, made myself a Spirit in a sword, got a +1 necro ammy, wormhelm, and a shrunken skull with +3 corpse explosion and +2 clay golem and socketed, so I threw some diamonds in there. I'm doing well so far at level 33. My merc thus far has had the prayer aura and it has worked very well for keeping my minions alive - they almost never die - however I noticed the skeletons have a defense of 500 and they aren't even close to being maxed, which got me thinking about defiance after I accidentally purchased a defiance merc (the prayer merc seemed to be stuck at level 21 while my levels kept skyrocketing past 30, so I bought what I thought was a combat merc, but apparently I was too hasty). I really haven't played much with him, but I made an Insight for him and I'm hoping everything works out. A lot of uncertainties but I'm having the most fun with D that I've had in a long time.

[Archon_Wing]

Hirable mercs are always slightly lower level than you, so don't bother leveling them up; just hire new ones if you're not happy with your current one.:)

Defiance probaly won't help too much. Thanks to the high regeneration, and with more pts in skellie/mastery they rarely fall, and if they do, it's typically not a physical attack. Usually I lose skeletons only to act bosses. In other cases, skeletons are easily replaced. Basically your army will have little problem with tanking, it's just the damage you need to focus on.

[Taem]

I am currently level 56 and have defeated Baal in Nightmare so easily, I was shocked. I am having so much fun with my necro, it should be illegal.

Anyways, I'm having a hard time justifying the switch off from a Defiance merc to a Might one since even in hell, my skeletons can hold their own with the Defiance aura on, but I made the switch today and will see how it goes. Corpse Explosion has got the be the best skills in this game hands down; I had 13 left over points and wasn't sure where to invest them so I decided to split them evenly into Skeletal Mage and Corpse Explosion - I guess I'll max both of these skills. I read in some other necromancer summoner guides that taking Decripify was recommended, however after murdering Baal in Nightmare without the loss of a single skeleton, I highly doubt it. I decided not to take it, or any other curses other than Amplify Damage - no other curse is necessary IMO. I think in total I have +5 Necromancer Skills with a further +3 Summoning Skills and +1 Curses; my shield has +3 Corpse Explosion and +1 Clay Golem. My resists are adequate in Nightmare where I'll stay till around level 70 or so.

[Taem]

I am currently level 56 and have defeated Baal in Nightmare so easily, I was shocked. I am having so much fun with my necro, it should be illegal.

Anyways, I'm having a hard time justifying the switch off from a Defiance merc to a Might one since even in hell, my skeletons can hold their own with the Defiance aura on, but I made the switch today and will see how it goes. Corpse Explosion has got the be the best skills in this game hands down; I had 13 left over points and wasn't sure where to invest them so I decided to split them evenly into Skeletal Mage and Corpse Explosion - I guess I'll max both of these skills. I read in some other necromancer summoner guides that taking Decripify was recommended, however after murdering Baal in Nightmare without the loss of a single skeleton, I highly doubt it. I decided not to take it, or any other curses other than Amplify Damage - no other curse is necessary IMO. I think in total I have +5 Necromancer Skills with a further +3 Summoning Skills and +1 Curses; my shield has +3 Corpse Explosion and +1 Clay Golem. My resists are adequate in Nightmare where I'll stay till around level 70 or so.

I just made a Heart Of The Oak!!!!:D. Anyways, when I have my skeletons, skeletal mages, revives, and a spirit out, why can't I summon ravens? I summon them and they disappear almost immediately after summoning them :(.

EDIT - Oh, and I decided to give Hell a try. So far I'm tearing right through it without any trouble. I'm level 66 already in one day just from getting from Act 1 to Act 2. This is the fastest leveling I've done in quite awhile.