Non-splat Werewolf

[Frag]

I was seeing +16% from the Fists of Thunder rune, +15% from mantra of evasion, +x% from dex and it was a straight addition the first day of release, didn't test beyond that. /shrug

[swirly]

Anyone know how level difference will effect the formula? Do mobs that are higher level than you are have an increased chance to hit? Making the 1's in the formula into 1.#'s. I'm just curious how inferno with it's mobs gaining levels on the character will affect the dodge rate.

On a different note, I'm pretty happy with the build so far. About to finish Nightmare and with all the dodge stuff running I'm a bit over 60% dodge. So far easily enough to support healing the damage I do take.

Over the life of all my monks I have periodically debated Sweeping Wind - Inner Storm for some spirit regen. I think I have finally come to a conclusion on that which is that I don't like it. Thinking about it, the only times Sweeping Wind will be at a full 3 stacks is when I can stand and deliver some hits. In that case I am generating plenty of spirit already. So the times when I would need the regen from it are also the times it won't be giving the regen. So I think that rune is a bit badly designed. Even just changing it to "gain 1 spirit per second per stack" would make it better even though the end numbers are the same cause then even with one stack it is giving something. With the current way it only gives at full stacks and that makes it less useful.

I'm also debating how good Mantra of Evasion - Backlash would be. I have already been saved a couple of times by my usage of Divine Protection. So I'm hesitant to give that up. Yet in game Backlash says 63% damage as an AOE for every dodge. So at 50% dodge that seems like it could be a solid amount of damage that would cost no spirit at all. It ties in with the build well and replaces a skill that one hopes to never trigger. It is just hard cause those times when it does trigger are really really important times as a HC character. Also DP does work on Allies which is appealing. So at the moment I'm a little torn on damage vs survival in that regard.

[Frag]

I have a Backlash build I've discussed with multiple people, and everyone who is running it loves it to death in Hell/Inferno (seriously, they're SC players ). Just catch me on and we can talk about it. Obviously it's 'theorycrafted + real world testing outside of my own hands'.

Cheers.

[swirly]

I have a Backlash build I've discussed with multiple people, and everyone who is running it loves it to death in Hell/Inferno (seriously, they're SC players ).

If I were SC, I might consider a backlash build like: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/mo...dYX!ZYYbcc

Basically pull everything in to you and have an even larger dodge chance after doing so. Dashing Strike with dodge on it too for either getting to the middle of a group or getting out. It actually seems pretty solid to me. Really it is just going from Sweeping Wind to Cyclone and from Tempest Rush to Dashing in comparison to my build (I made a couple minor rune changes too.)

It is actually even somewhat tempting in HC cause GG tells me Cyclone interrupts almost anything. Even Champs and huge mobs. So instead of avoiding a Mallet Lord attack you could Cyclone to cancel it. You'd still have to avoid some of course, but it is a nice feature. Not sure I'm willing to try it though. To be honest, I'm scared to give up Sweeping Wind at this point cause the last time I did; I died.

Dashing instead of Tempest doesn't really seem like a hard nor dangerous choice. It's mostly play style choice. So that one really isn't a hold up in going from SC to HC. It's just the Cyclone aspect I think.

[Concillian]

Well, even without a specific dodge focus, around 50% dodge is reasonable (30% from ~1000 DEX + 15% aura + 15% guardian's path) and that should provide a decent amount of AoE to mobs.

A reasonable tradeoff for +20% armor in areas when in areas that you can survive without that.

Adding in Fists of lighting, Cyclone, and Dashing is a little excessive, though Dashing is a strong skill to have anyway, as is cyclone.

I found sweeping wind very spirit intensive, and I either had to play bonzai. Unless there was an elite I could constantly attack, but if I can constantly attack an elite, I rarely need the damage. I've been using mystic ally (fire) lately as my damage adder. Earth taunts and get's himself killed, but fire doesn't die nearly as often and is able to provide it's damage more consistently than sweeping wind does (for me at least).

[swirly]

though Dashing is a strong skill to have anyway

I swapped to Dashing earlier today to give a try. Not even really because I wanted any of it's effects, but I was seeing rubberbanding with Tempest Strike and feeling like it would cause me some trouble. It's odd cause the patch mentions a couple of fixes for such issues and I didn't notice them until after the patch. My only worry with Dashing is that if I need to just straight run from something it doesn't really help with that much whereas I was using Tempest with the 25% movement rune and so could use that to run if necessary. So slightly concerned I'll get myself into a situation and not be able to get out of it.

sweeping wind

For some reason I feel sturdier with Sweeping Wind up. I don't know if there is some kind of life steal triggering with it or if it is purely just perception. I just know that I do feel that way.

Edit: I really feel like my sturdier feeling with Wind is purely perception. My gut right now says I'm not getting any life steal from it or anything else ot help me stay up. Yet that perception is enough for now to keep me from getting rid of it. At least combined with losing a monk to a swarm the last time I did.

[swirly]

The game is feeling tougher now that I'm in Hell and I'm trying to focus more on what is happening with my skill usage instead of just going by feel like I normally do. What I'm seeing right now with Sweeping Wind is that I need it's AOE for the White mobs. I just don't feel comfortable without it when facing a large number of mobs. Yet when I face a Champion pack it seems either the pack is easy enough that it really doesn't matter either way or I'm running a lot and Sweeping Wind ends up down and staying down cause I need to spend my spirit on other things.

Thus my thinking currently is that I'll keep Sweeping Wind for now since I need it for the trash, but when I hit 58 (4 levels from now) I'll swap in Backlash on my Mantra and see if that provides enough AOE on the trash to compensate for the loss of Wind. The question then becomes, what do I put in Wind's place?

I've already gone back to Tempest Rush instead of Dashing Strike. I just don't like how Dashing works when not targetting a mob and that is an important aspect to me. So I'm just going to keep Tempest Rush and hope I can manage the Rubberbanding enough to not get killed by it.

My build at 58 will then be as follows.

• Fists of Thunder: Lightning Flash
  
• Tempest Rush: Tailwind
  
• Breathe of Heaven: Circle of Life (I know most prefer the damage buff rune, but I'm still finding the life very useful)
  
• Serenity: Ascension (I really want to use Tranquility to free people I group with from freezes and such, but I think I need to worry about myself more at this point)
  
• Mantra of Evasion: Backlash
  
• Transcendence
  
• Seize The Initiative
  
• The Guardian's Path
  

The empty spot is the Sweeping Wind spot that I need to figure out what to fill with. Could be an Ally, could be something else. I'm really not sure right now.

[swirly]

I went ahead and tried taking Sweeping Wind off early and used Earth Ally for a bit to see how it was. I wasn't really thrilled with how much he would run off. It's odd cause I played a pet based Witch Doctor and so you would think I'd be used to it, but it is different when you are melee too. Things went okay though up until I hit the Manor in Act 1 where there are a ton of white mobs that come at once. I ended up lower than I would like there and had to zone out to heal and wait for cooldowns and such. Way too close to dying. So since then I've gone back to using Sweeping Wind. I think long term that I will be able to get rid of it when I get Backlash, but for now it just seems required.

I feel like I didn't really enjoy the Ally though, so going to have to put some serious thought into what other skill to put there.

[FoxBat]

It is actually even somewhat tempting in HC cause GG tells me Cyclone interrupts almost anything. Even Champs and huge mobs. So instead of avoiding a Mallet Lord attack you could Cyclone to cancel it.

Cyclone does work on champs but not on many huge mobs. If cyclone can't pull it then it can't interrupt it either. I have yet to do an exhaustive documentation but it seems to work on less things than kick does, for example the bloated parasite things. Certainly doesn't work on tree lurker things and I thought mallet lords were also a no go.

One thing to keep in mind about the ally skill is that it has zero cooldown and just 25 spirit. If you recast it while its alive it will summon next to you. I find the harder part is paying enough attention to recast it, but I bet witch doctors wish they could spam minions that cheaply with no cooldown. It also goes much better with deadly reach as you can keep kiting just behind it if you want it to tank.

[swirly]

I went ahead and dropped Sweeping Wind to try out Inner Sanctuary - Consecration and I think I like it. It knocks things back which interrupts. It keeps mobs from swarming around me so I can regulate my damage intake better. It lasts 7 seconds with a 20 second cooldown which feels like a decent amount of uptime. 7 seconds of that, 4 seconds of Serenity. Throw in some dodges, heals, and a little running around and things are seeming pretty solid. My only issue right now is that my damage is feeling way too low. That will be fixed when I hit 58 for Backlash, but I am slightly concerned up till then. Some of it is gearing too though. Feel like I've fallen a little behind there and so should spend a little time trying to fix that.

[Concillian]

Well, you are built FULL defensive right now, so yeah, you're having damage issues. I think you need to work on getting enough additional mitigation or healing so that you can use the 15% damage buff on blaze. That can be done with gearing (life on hit / leech) or skills. I wonder if purple gems in weapons + the 15% damage rune is more damage and healing than red gems + 2k healing per 15 seconds.

I'm not sure I would feel comfortable without the heal rune on serenity. That gives you another heal that costs almost no spirit. It extends the use of serenity, because you can often purposefully eat more than one second of damage , then activate serenity for the heal and 3 seconds of immunity. This helps stretch out your cooldown rotation more than the 1 second immunity, IMO. Especially if you have some Life on hit, as you'll heal from that while immune too. It really changes the way you use serenity. It's more useful in more situations. If you didn't see that frozen thing on the floor, it's not as big a deal that you got hit for 5k and frozen, and has essentially the same duration as if you saw it and used it 1 second earlier to avoid the freeze.

If you add blind, you now have a complete cycle covered on cooldowns and the blind has a pretty decent offensive rune @ 58. It also works to help with those annoying ranged runners, you just need to get into range, then blind to stop them so you can attack them. I also strongly prefer deadly reach to Fists of Lightning for the same reason. I don't have a big problem with the melee stuff, but the ranged can be a pain.

I also use Deadly strike for the extra range to kill throwers and such. It has some great runes too, none are really BAD, but I don't really like scattered blows. Strike from beyond requires special gearing for crits, but can provide additional transcendance healing if you do gear that way (plus you get some damage too). Most choose the extra armor, and you have the option of extra damage at 60. It works really well indoors, which has natural features to funnel monsters together and it couples well with your choice of inner sanctuary / consecrate ... you can either stand in the circle to do damage without getting hit or use the circle to funnel a group into more of a line for better killing power.

Here is what I've been using of late, but I AHed some cold resist gear for One with Everything, and am VERY durable as a result. I can see a good argument for swapping Fire Ally with Inner Sanctuary, I'm basically using Fire Ally as pure damage, which seems fine for late nightmare. I think I'll actually try swapping it for inner sanctuary and get some practice with it before Hell.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/mo...dXU!ZZbaYa

[swirly]

Just a note to say why I feel like a good portion of the damage issue right now is gear. My monk entered hell at 2k damage. Was only at 2.5k in Act 2 when I posted earlier. I just recently picked up a weapon upgrade that boosted me to 3.3k damage. (which has me feeling better already) I'm also only 56.

In comparison my Witch Doctor was at 3k damage when he entered Hell and was 60 already at around where I am now. So I'm feeling a bit behind where I should be at this point just because of that previous experience.

I should also note that I've been running purple gems in my weapons since before I finished normal. I pretty much decided early on with this character that I wanted to prioritize life on hit on my weapons and haven't looked back from that. Though at the moment I don't actually even have sockets in my weapons.

My feeling at the moment with the extra second on Serenity is that I end Serentiy at full health anyway so a heal on top of that doesn't do anything. I shall try to pay more attention though to see if that is what is actually happening or not.

For me The Guardian's Path and Transcendence are required passives. So if I were to swap in One With Everything it would be for Seize the Initiative which is a somewhat questionable swap. Probably worth it right now though. I'd lose 9% armor mit, but physical resistance would go up 12%. Of course Fire resist (my current high) would then effectively be going down 9% from the armor loss. Probably worth it, but not hugely so and, to be honest, I feel like One with everything is too strong right now and will be nerfed and as such I feel dirty using it. Thus I'm resisting right now and sticking with Seize. Even though my non-AH using makes it about where they would want it to be. It's really the AH and being able to pick your resists easier that makes it over strong. That is my understanding anyway. So I shouldn't feel dirty for using it really. Yet I do.