my connection with the tea party

[Jester]

The doctors would get a fair market rate. Maybe just not as much as they could going into private practice, but that is a risk too. This way, they could negate a big part of their debt, get experience, and be altruistically contributing to society.

You negate debt with money. Debt negated directly is just money you didn't get to spend elsewhere. From the government's perspective, forgiving a dollar of debt is not materially different from paying a dollar of wages. (For doctors, who are unlikely to default, that is.) The net wage is still the net wage.

Doctors already have lots of options for being altruistic, taking a pay cut, or being greedy, and maximizing revenue. It seems like this would just be channeling them into the public sector. I'm all for public sector medicine, so I'm for this too, but I'm not seeing how this changes the incentives for *enrollment*, which is how you'd get supply up, and prices down.

When I said cost less 10 %, I expected the government to eat the 10% loss (about $500 million). I'm just throwing these % around though by gut feel based on experience, you might be able to create a system with less overhead, and tighter margins reducing the overall cost and achieving the same results.

Okay. So government hires doctors at a loss in order to provide social-welfare enhancing services. Easy.

Why does this reduce overhead? Other than your gut feeling? It sounds like any other program, public or private: hire workers to do a job. File paperwork accordingly.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Doctors already have lots of options for being altruistic, taking a pay cut, or being greedy, and maximizing revenue. It seems like this would just be channeling them into the public sector. I'm all for public sector medicine, so I'm for this too, but I'm not seeing how this changes the incentives for *enrollment*, which is how you'd get supply up, and prices down.

Well, temporarily into the public sector. But, you are right, it does nothing to open up enrollment other than provide an alternative funding path for profession already in high demand.

I'm assuming we have a supply problem for a few reasons. 1) not enough enrollment slots in colleges making it difficult to get into the profession, or 2) the costs are prohibitive, where the alternative health corps route would alleviate that concern. 3) not enough students are interested in the profession, or 4) not enough students have the prerequisite aptitude. We can't do to much about 3) or 4).

To address 1), we'd need to create incentives for colleges to expand their enrollment in these professions.

It sounds like any other program, public or private: hire workers to do a job. File paperwork accordingly.

It's not different other than attempting to bend the supply and demand curves in the health care profession.

[Jester]

I'm assuming we have a supply problem for a few reasons. 1) not enough enrollment slots in colleges making it difficult to get into the profession, or 2) the costs are prohibitive, where the alternative health corps route would alleviate that concern. 3) not enough students are interested in the profession, or 4) not enough students have the prerequisite aptitude. We can't do to much about 3) or 4).

The problem with becoming a doctor is not that, in the long run, it's too expensive. You earn tons of money once you've got your license. Paying off student loans isn't fun, but with the degree, you become a money making machine. Doctors earn loads of cash, and have little incentive to not be doctors after getting their degree.

The problems are the up front costs. People with no money and bad credit aren't able to wait until they graduate to pay off their loans, because they probably won't even make it that far.* Giving them an additional option at the end of their degree is useless; they already have the best license to print money that an education can buy - an MD.

What might help would be a broad and generous scholarship program, to ensure that a broader swathe of people with the talent manage to get into and through the program. Perhaps create an indenture program, where you promise to sign up for public doctoring in order to get a scholarship? Make it a competitive thing for successful med school applicants? Something like that.

-Jester

*Yes, I know, not impossible. But damn hard - and supply of doctors is determined by the marginal, not the exceptional, case.

[kandrathe]

The problem with becoming a doctor is not that, in the long run, it's too expensive. You earn tons of money once you've got your license. Paying off student loans isn't fun, but with the degree, you become a money making machine. Doctors earn loads of cash, and have little incentive to not be doctors after getting their degree.

The problems are the up front costs. People with no money and bad credit aren't able to wait until they graduate to pay off their loans, because they probably won't even make it that far.* Giving them an additional option at the end of their degree is useless; they already have the best license to print money that an education can buy - an MD.

What might help would be a broad and generous scholarship program, to ensure that a broader swathe of people with the talent manage to get into and through the program. Perhaps create an indenture program, where you promise to sign up for public doctoring in order to get a scholarship? Make it a competitive thing for successful med school applicants? Something like that.

-Jester

*Yes, I know, not impossible. But damn hard - and supply of doctors is determined by the marginal, not the exceptional, case.

I would agree. We might as well do the Kennedy thing and promote STEM at the same time, which is in a woeful state in the US as well.

[kandrathe]

I hope your point is not that this is a waste of money. The widow in the story from your link seemed pretty glad she was with her husband for another 17 months, instead of the 3 months it would have taken without (expensive) treatment.

"Only I know that those 17 months included an afternoon looking down at the Mediterranean with Georgia from a sunny balcony in Southern Spain. Moving Terry into his college dorm. Celebrating our 20th anniversary with a carriage ride through Philadelphia’s cobbled streets."

So she should be happy to pay the additional $50K out of her own pocket. Perhaps had she used a few million, they might have had another great Thanksgiving with the family, and saw little Janie get married.

Once you are ruled by emotion, logic tends to fly out the window. I'm not saying to be unemotional, but realize that we often don't make good buying decisions based on emotions and we should live with the consequences.

My dad had cancer and extended his life ten years from when it initially metastasized. But, he was also very careful to leave his wife in a good financial place, and had time to get everything settled.

[Tris]

The one thing about the Tea Party is that it mustn't steep too long. Becomes bitter and upalatable then

[kandrathe]

The one thing about the Tea Party is that it mustn't steep too long. Becomes bitter and upalatable then

Hmmm, green tea though... It's full of healthy antioxidents and stimulates the digestion. My favorite is The Steepery when I can get away from the bourgeois democratic coffee drinkers.

[LavCat]

The one thing about the Tea Party is that it mustn't steep too long. Becomes bitter and upalatable then

Hmmm, green tea though... It's full of healthy antioxidents and stimulates the digestion. My favorite is The Steepery when I can get away from the bourgeois democratic coffee drinkers.

Pretty site and nice looking tea. Are you in favor of selling opium to China to pay for it?

[eppie]

The one thing about the Tea Party is that it mustn't steep too long. Becomes bitter and upalatable then

Hmmm, green tea though... It's full of healthy antioxidents and stimulates the digestion. My favorite is The Steepery when I can get away from the bourgeois democratic coffee drinkers.

Sadly they sell all these flavoured 'teas'.....making it exactly the same as starbucks......a tea place for people that don't like tea.

Starbucks has good coffee, but you should drink the standard black coffee (filter or espresso with added hot water), but when you are at Starbucks and ask for a normal coffee they almost don't even know what it is. They think a non-fat soy moca latte frappucino is coffee.

You want tea?
Order it here http://www.fortnumandmason.com/Black-Str..........and pray that noone will dump it in the boston harbour.

[kandrathe]

Sadly they sell all these flavoured 'teas'.....making it exactly the same as starbucks......a tea place for people that don't like tea.

They have a bulk selection too. But, I agree the flavored teas are for the barbarians. I have to admit though, I do like Chai.

My wife's usual Starbucks order she calls the "Why bother?" -- Double decaf skinny latte. If I get a Starbucks, it's usually a "Depth charge", because I need it.

[eppie]

Sadly they sell all these flavoured 'teas'.....making it exactly the same as starbucks......a tea place for people that don't like tea.

They have a bulk selection too. But, I agree the flavored teas are for the barbarians. I have to admit though, I do like Chai.

My wife's usual Starbucks order she calls the "Why bother?" -- Double decaf skinny latte. If I get a Starbucks, it's usually a "Depth charge", because I need it.

I found the starbucks thing a very interesting phenom. I have seen huge changes since I visited the US for the first time. Before starbucks became really big. You got huge cups of coffee (some 15 cm high) and you could still see the bottom. It was clear that the US needed someone who could make a good cup of coffee. Then Starbucks came and became very popular (not using the nicest business tactics of course) forcing many of the nice american style diners where you can get that great breakfast. out of business.

The ironic thing about this whole transformation is that it is not the normal black coffee (filter or espresso) that is driving the business but all their special coffee products.

* I am a purist. I think everyone that uses milk and/or sugar in their coffee should go to prison.

[FireIceTalon]

Sadly they sell all these flavoured 'teas'.....making it exactly the same as starbucks......a tea place for people that don't like tea.

They have a bulk selection too. But, I agree the flavored teas are for the barbarians. I have to admit though, I do like Chai.

My wife's usual Starbucks order she calls the "Why bother?" -- Double decaf skinny latte. If I get a Starbucks, it's usually a "Depth charge", because I need it.

I found the starbucks thing a very interesting phenom. I have seen huge changes since I visited the US for the first time. Before starbucks became really big. You got huge cups of coffee (some 15 cm high) and you could still see the bottom. It was clear that the US needed someone who could make a good cup of coffee. Then Starbucks came and became very popular (not using the nicest business tactics of course) forcing many of the nice american style diners where you can get that great breakfast. out of business.

The ironic thing about this whole transformation is that it is not the normal black coffee (filter or espresso) that is driving the business but all their special coffee products.

* I am a purist. I think everyone that uses milk and/or sugar in their coffee should go to prison.

I cant drink coffee black.

While the coffee is better at Starbucks, overall I like the drinks better at Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. The lattes are better, and the hot chocolate is no comparison.

[kandrathe]

Pretty site and nice looking tea. Are you in favor of selling opium to China to pay for it?

Not for all the tea in China...

But seriously... My position is libertarian. Personally, I don't condone the encouragement of addicting behavior, but I feel people should choose for themselves how they will live their lives. I would be against state sponsorship and promotion as was committed by the British East India Company.