Interesting Deus Ex bug

[WarLocke]

When my computer crapped out on me nearly three weeks ago, I was crawling around in the ductwork of a superfreighter. Not literally; I was just being my sneaky ninja DX alter-ego.

Sometime during the 11 days or so it took me to get off my arse and replace the dead part, I realized that DX has (had?) a patch (and a rather large 36mb one at that), and I loathe playing unpatched games -- I'm always wondering if I'm missing out on something.

Also, I had been playing on the Easy difficulty setting, and the game was seeming a bit too easy. UNATCO troops? Cannonfodder. MJ12 Commandos? Ooh, I'm scared. P Series M(/W)IBs? Just don't be near when they go boom. La dee freakin' da.

So, after getting my hardware fixed and DX patched, I figured since my old saved games probably aren't compatible with the new patch I might as well start all over, and I might as well crank up the difficulty while I'm at it.

At the time of this writing, I'm just about to leave Hong Kong, playing through on Realistic. Let me tell you, I use Regeneration, Ballistic Protection, Cloaking, and the Spy Drone a heck of alot more now. MJ12 Commandos are extremely dangerous (due to above-average aiming abilities and the LAWs they carry) unless I can catch them unawares (sniper 4 life B) ) and MIBs are strictly long-range opponents (although I did find myself in a position to DTS one; I reached down out of a ventilation shaft and poked her in the ear, and the wall/shaft stopped the blast wave).

The Spy Drone augmentation is worth its weight in gold. At level 1 the thing is slow and sluggish, but a level 2 drone is pretty darn fast and maneuverable, and can disable a security bot (the walker types like the one on the docks on mission 1) if relatively close when it EMPs.

But anyway, to the bug. When starting the game, you're allowed to "downgrade" your Pistols skill to Untrained and put the points you receive towards something else. It worked out great for me because then I could have Rifle, Computer, Lockpicking, and Electronics all at Trained from the start. But, once you start the game, you'll have Pistols at Trained anyway. I didn't notice this until I was too far in to want to restart, but it's not as if I ever use a pistol in this new game, anyway.

Honestly, besides possible ammo problems (60 30.06 shells maximum, 300 7.62mm bullets max -- but fired in 5-round bursts), the Rifles skill pretty much has every base covered. The sniper rifle is the ideal surgical strike tool, but can still be used close-up. The assault rifle is great for heated combat situations, and can fire 20mm HE rounds (glorified grenades) once you start finding the ammo. I don't keep a shotgun (automatic or otherwise) around, but from prior experience I know they have great stopping power and SABOT shells at a high skill level would probably be extremely deadly.

At Master Rifles with a tricked-out sniper rifle (100% accuracy, 11-round clip, .20 recoil, 1.2 second reload time, 2520ft effective range, silencer, laser sight) and assault rifle (100% accuracy, 39-round clip, .35 recoil, laser sight), firing is pretty much point-and-click. Unless the target is running around madly, I can put a full burst of 7.62 in his face, which is pretty much death for any biological short of a Commando, MIB, or Greasel/Karkian. The sniper rifle is even worse -- snapshots the the temple from across the map are fun. :ph34r:

Also, now that I have more experience with the game, it's been alot easier to ration expendables. It's amazing how many TNT crates and explosive barrels you can find to save you having to use lockpicks if you look around. Heck, when I got to the portion of the game where you lose your inventory, I had something like 7 LAMs and gas grenades (only because I had made it a point to use some beforehand), 10 EMP grenades, and 3 or 4 Scramble grenades. It still ticks me off that you can get all your guns and lockpicks and multitools back, but not grenades. <_<

I also carry a LAW around for giggles; they come in useful when you need to blow something away but getting close enough to toss a LAM would be dangerous.

I am kind of worried that I may be missing out on some aug upgrade cans, though. I think that I've only found 6 or 7 so far, but I already have a full load of augs. So I have a bunch of level 1 and 2 augs, but it seems like I should maybe have more/better?

[Nystul]

I went bargain bin shopping at Electronics Boutique over the weekend, and came home with Deus Ex for 8 dollars. So far I'm having a miserably hard time (little different from Quake eh), but I can already see why so many people love this game.

Just confirmed that bug you mentioned... pretty silly oversight. I really don't understand why they put that downgrade option in the game. It would be more consistent to start all skills at untrained and suggest in the manual that beginners train handgun skills. Or alternatively, to just make that one a requirement rather than an option.

[pakman]

I wen to Best Buy a week or two ago, and they were sold out...time to check Wal-Mart.....

[[wcip]Angel]

Remember the Golden Rule of Deus Ex(®):

"Make sure the thing you're supposed to do, is the final thing you do."
meaning:
Your real mission objectives are to do everything besides your mission objectives. That way you will explore every nook and cranny and get all the items and upgrades there are, including augmentations. When I was done this 10th time I finished the game, I had 5-6 augmentations maxed out.

Favourite sniping level: Paris. :)

Otherwise, just enjoy yourself. I know I said that the 10th time was to be my last time, but I just started playing for fun again, and I'm tempted to go all the way through this game ... again.

edit: And remember what I said about Hell's Kitchen

Check the following places
* Smuggler's (buy his stuff, destroy his mirror.)
* Containers behind the basketball yard
* JC Denton's room (behind the bookshelf)
* Hack 2 ATMs (hotel + bar)
* Elevator shaft in hotel (there's almost always something on the top level of the shaft, most often a weapons upgrade.)

edit#2: always check the secret compartment below Jacobsen's office inside UNATCO. There are tons of upgrades there. (well, "several" at least.)

[DeeBye]

Hi [wcip]Angel,

I just wanted to let you know that the image in your sig is too long (dimension-wise). I browse at 800x600, and any thread in which you post gets a horizontal scrollbar. This makes reading the thread annoying, to say the least.

Is there any chance you can shorten it a little bit? Maybe make it 25% smaller?

Thanks in advance.

-DeeBye

[[wcip]Angel]

I'll change it for you.

Hang on just one moment.

Ahh damn, I'm late for my haircut. I'll change it when get back, ok?

(Might I ask why you would want to use a 800*600 resolution?)

edit: done. I'll make something a little more permanent when I get back later.

edit#2: done. Hope this new signature doesn't upset anyone (other than me..)

[WarLocke]

I went bargain bin shopping at Electronics Boutique over the weekend, and came home with Deus Ex for 8 dollars. So far I'm having a miserably hard time (little different from Quake eh), but I can already see why so many people love this game.

We have another rogue agent! Release the transgenics!

I wen to Best Buy a week or two ago, and they were sold out...time to check Wal-Mart.....

I didn't think Deus Ex was still being sold. I've never seen a copy on a store shelf, anyway.

Favourite sniping level: Paris.

Word. The place you start the mission at just begs to be sniped from. All the nooks, crannies, and alleys when you get down to street level are fun, too. B)

Smuggler's (buy his stuff, destroy his mirror.)

Strangely, I found that I don't spend much money in this game. I buy nearly every weapon mod I can, but usually I don't need any expendables (example, when Smuggler offered me LAMs before the superfreighter mission, I already had a nearly-full load). I guess I need to use my LAMs and grenades more. :ph34r:

always check the secret compartment below Jacobsen's office inside UNATCO. There are tons of upgrades there.

A few, yeah, but I wouldn't say many. And the last time you can check it there's absolutely nothing in there. <_<

Alright, I'm off to bust up a chataeu in Paris.

[[wcip]Angel]

Be sure to check out the smuggler next to the nightclub in Paris. There are 3-4 weapon mods in there. Also make sure you use the pin codes on the ATMs before you hack them. You get more money that way.

Also, there's a secret compartment behind the fireplance in the chateau.

[pakman]

Now that I have a copy of Deus Ex, I will install it and start playing. However, I would like to know if you were playing Deus Ex from a fresh install, no updates, patches, etc. See, this is my problem, I have a sluggish modem at home (read 36.6 :angry: ) and it is impossible to download anything, especially 36 megs of it. Are there any really noticable bugs in the "1.0" version from the box? Things like, if I aim at someones foot, do I hit them in the torso instead? Or are the bugs tiny and only exploitable if you know what you are looking for? (I do not intend to exploit bugs, I avoid it if at all possible)

[WarLocke]

Also make sure you use the pin codes on the ATMs before you hack them. You get more money that way.

Also, there's a secret compartment behind the fireplance in the chateau.

Well, crud. I missed that compartment, and I didn't even know you could both withdraw from and hack ATMs. Bah, I still have nearly 9,000 credits. <_<

However, I would like to know if you were playing Deus Ex from a fresh install, no updates, patches, etc.

I didn't notice any bugs when I was playing the 1.0 version at all. So either they were very innocuos (bet I spelled that wrong), or I'm blind. :P The patch, from what I've learned, was mainly for fixing stability issues (although DX seemed fairly stable to begin with) and to add multiplayer functionality. It did dramatically up the damage of one particular weapon, but the thing is basically a lightsaber anyway. :ph34r:

DX is really a great game, you'll love it.

[Zarathustra]

GAh, it's been ages since I've playd DX and now you're making me want to fire it up again.

Last playthrough I was about halfway and was specializing in sniper rifles for long range and physical attacks for close range. Gotta love that sword...

[pakman]

Last night I installed Deus Ex, and here are my first impressions of the game.

Right after I installed the game, my computer decided to freeze.

The controls took forever to chagne to my likes, I'd change something and something else would not work. I'm not one for the w,a,s,d controls. I got my ass kicked in the training by the stealth part and the very end bot.

Then I created my character: Computer, electronic, lockpicking, and rifle at trained right now. I'm always the sniper that you hate playing against in Counter Strike. I did get a little miffed about the rifle moving so much :angry:, but then I realized that it was realistic, duh. *slaps hand to forehead* The movement itself, meaning, how you actually move through the game is different than what I am used to.

Right now I am still nowhere into the very first mission, I killed the two talking terrorists on liberty island, and then I stealthily made my way over to the UNATCO encampment and talked to the guard about buying eqiupment. I then haXXoR3d my way into the UNATCO system to look at video cameras and open door locks. And that is where I saved and quit. I'm going to give it another chance either tonight or Friday. (taking summer classes leaves no time <_<)

[WarLocke]

Sorry to hear you're having trouble, pakman. :(

I'm not sure if I can comment on your control scheme, since I do use the WASD keys, but may I suggest rebinding the "lean left/right" and "crouch" keys to your liking, since they are cornerstone IMO (I use Q, E, and X for them). I also have the "toggle scope" and "toggle laser" keys mapped to R and F for easy access.

Protip: If you're using a laser sight (but not a scope) your gun is considered to be 100% accurate -- ie: your shot goes where the sighting dot is.

The rifle bob ((or bob for any weapon, really) can be counteracted in two ways: Increasing your level in the weapon's skill will increase your Accuracy with it (it's something like +5%, +12%, +25% for Rifles), or you can install Accuracy Mods on it (which add +4% each IIRC). I'm not sure if the "bob" takes into account skill level (other than the acc bonus) since my rifle reached 100% at Advanced, but when you reach that point you will have instant aim: the bullet goes right where you point the gun.

The movement itself, meaning, how you actually move through the game is different than what I am used to.

Clarification? The early levels are sort of mission-based (ie, go do this, return for base for debriefing, go do that, etc), although you do visit some areas multiple times.

Right now I am still nowhere into the very first mission, I killed the two talking terrorists on liberty island, and then I stealthily made my way over to the UNATCO encampment and talked to the guard about buying eqiupment. I then haXXoR3d my way into the UNATCO system to look at video cameras and open door locks. And that is where I saved and quit.

Sounds like you're doing pretty good, for your first time. Deus Ex is a big change from the Quakes or Unreals, and takes a bit of getting used to. At the point in the game you're at, you can't get into UNATCO itself, but be sure to explore everything you can. Sometimes you ca get multiple bonus experience awards for doing the same thing differently (for example, you might get 100 points for making your way into a specific room, but you might also get 50 more for getting there through a ventilation shaft rather than the direct way).

That guard sells a scope, tranq darts, and 30.06 ammo, right? The rifle ammo might be a good buy if you're a dedicated sniper, but I wouldn't suggest buying his scope. If you wait until the end of the Liberty Island mission, you can get one from UNATCO for free. Gimme a yell if you want a spoiler as to where. ;)

Also, be sure to check out the back of the comm van (inside the wooden wall/fence). There tends to be some small goodies there.

[pakman]

Clarification? The early levels are sort of mission-based (ie, go do this, return for base for debriefing, go do that, etc), although you do visit some areas multiple times.

Sorry about that. What I mean is that the way the character moves, the first person point of view, is different than the games I have played in the past, i.e. Unreal, BF1942, Quake...the games you mention. They all move the character similarly, DX is different and it takes getting used to.

Another thing I forgot to mention is stunned people. When I stun someone with the tazer thing, I decided to take the crowbaf to their face. However, when I position the crosshairs over them after beating the terrorist sufficiently, it still says they are unconscious. Does it really take that long to kill someone with the crowbar?

EDIT: I haven't found the back way in yet, maybe it has something to do with that boat at the dock in the very beginning. I tried swimming around, but didn't find anything. I employed a chicken tactic at the beginning, I fire a shot and let terrorists follow me back to the dock and let the guard bot take them out. I save on ammo and life :)

[WarLocke]

Another thing I forgot to mention is stunned people. When I stun someone with the tazer thing, I decided to take the crowbaf to their face. However, when I position the crosshairs over them after beating the terrorist sufficiently, it still says they are unconscious. Does it really take that long to kill someone with the crowbar?

Actually, I'm fairly sure the only way the game differentiates between "dead" and "unconscious" characters is the targeting status thing, and a few dialogue changes here or there. Otherwise they're treated the same; if you stun someone, they stay stunned for the entire level.

EDIT: I haven't found the back way in yet, maybe it has something to do with that boat at the dock in the very beginning. I tried swimming around, but didn't find anything. I employed a chicken tactic at the beginning, I fire a shot and let terrorists follow me back to the dock and let the guard bot take them out. I save on ammo and life

Actually, that boat is there to take you to your second mission when you're done on Liberty Island. The back way in Paul mentioned (? I think it was Paul) is near the center of the island. You'll have to do some climbing. B)

As for swimming around, in the first mission there are two water areas of interest: One is just below where you start the mission (go down the steps and look around), and the other is just off of the northern docks.

Protip: TNT crates are highly useful for blowing stuff up. :ph34r:

[pakman]

How does the experience system work in Deus Ex? Maybe I missed it in the little book. But I know that when I got into the little security place in Liberty Island I got an exploration bonus of 25 points. How do I know if I gain a "level?" Do I gain points for killing people? Am I even notified when I gain aforementioned level, or is it you gain points until you have enough to upgrade a skill?

[WarLocke]

or is it you gain points until you have enough to upgrade a skill?

That's it exactly. You gain experience for accomplishing certain goals, and you spend it on the skills of your choice. You'll get a good amount for simply accomplishing your objectives, but you can gain much more from bonuses. Often if you find an out-of-the-way nook or cranny you'll get an "exploration" bonus. Sometimes you get a "critical location" bonus (seems to be earned by entering a plot-necessary location by unusual means, I think). The experience for these bonuses usually isn't all that much (25, 50, and a couple 100/150s later on), but if you explore thoroughly, they do add up.

As an example, I'm fairly sure I'm nearing the end of the game, but I have two skills at Master (Rifles and Computer, easily 8500exp each in total), Low-Tech at Advanced (4015exp), and three skills at Trained (Lockpicking, Electronics, Swimming -- 1800, 1800, and 675exp). Not even counting unspent experience (and my bugged Pistols skill), I've earned in excess of 25,000 experience over the course of the game.

[pakman]

Here are my second chance reports: :)

I decided to look around and kill a few more people after buying ammo from the guard. I crept around the base of the statue and was spotted :angry:, but I managed to kill those guys. I then found my way into the underground storage when I found a hazmat suit, and some weapon upgrades that I, of course, added to my rifle. After that I climbed those boxes next to the first level of the statue. There were two terrorists in my immediate area, one was patroling and the other wasstanding there like a moron. So I crouch behind a box and nail the patrolling one in the head :ph34r: . Then the other guy starts running towards me, but can't see me because I'm hidden. So I bust a cap in his ass :ph34r: . Then I creep all the way around to the ramp and make it up to the second level. Nothing exciting on the second level, so I go up to the third. I notice the thing in the middle contains a terrorist and a mercenary, and the entrances are guarded by LAMs. I diffused a LAM and took it for later use. Then I decided to go up the stairs instead of down. I come upon the place where the two terrorists are complaining and sneak around in the shadows behind them and g up the stairs to the interrogation where I interrogate the guy and pick up an augmentation canister. Thus the first mission ends.

The second mission I hacked and lockpicked almost every door in the UNATCO compund, but have not met my "partner" for the next mission. I wish I had gotton rifle ammunition instead of a stealth pistol and some 10mm ammo. Then RL interrupted and I had to go to class :angry:

EDIT: Tonight I will undoubtedly play until about midnight. I have to stay ahead of my sister :blink: . I have to be the first one to do something :P I will continue my stealthy character: sniping, hacking, lockpicking, and electroniking. What does the electronics skill do? The only reason I use the pistol is that I have no ammo for my rifle :angry: Will I be able to buy ammo later on?

[Feryar]

You missed out on some stuff downstairs in the statue then :P