Whirlwinder

[Enishi Yukishiro]

Can someone tell me where I can find a good Whirlwinder Barbarian Strategy, please?
Thanks.

[DeathByDesign]

a little more info would be helpful
1)weapon type you plan on using

[MMAgCh]

monkeycid's Barbarian guide has some information on WW, both on the skill itself as well as on a possible build.
KingOfPain's WWology will also provide valuable information on this subject.

Until you provide us with more information on your problem, this is all that can be said.

I used the word information way too much.

[Enishi Yukishiro]

2-Sword wielder...
yeah... I think this might be the best choice... maybe a 1swd or Axe.. dunno

[DeathByDesign]

is this a pvp or pvm barb?

[Enishi Yukishiro]

Not decided yet.. I shall try a Polearm or spear... WHich one is better?
Is´t sorto of PvM, isn't it?

[DeathByDesign]

lance barbs used to rule before lod came out havent tried 1 in ages hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe ill start 1 tonight

[MMAgCh]

While these weapons have good range and damage, they also tend to lack in the speed department.

This is important because the amount of hits Whirlwind can land in a given time period depends on the amount of Increased Attack Speed on the Weapon (hereafter called WIAS), and on WIAS only. The way your speed is determined works (like all speed calculations in D2, be it attack speed, casting rate or hit recovery) via the breakpoint system; that is, you have to reach a preset amount of IAS to achieve an actual improvement, i.e. to have the attack require one less frame to execute.

These WIAS breakpoints for Whirlwind are, for two-handed weapons other than swords: -10, -30, -60

If you consider that e.g. a Lance has a base speed of 20, you'll see that you need 80% IAS on the weapon itself to reach the third breakpoint and attain the fastest possible WW speed with that weapon. There are two ways to accomplish this while still retaining passable damage:
1. take a magical Lance of Quickness (+40% IAS) with a decent prefix ("Cruel"), then have Larzuk put two sockets in it and socket two Shaels (another +40% IAS) for a total of +80% IAS.
2. find a rare Lance with +40% IAS from the Quickness suffix, two sockets from the Mechanic's prefix and decent ED (rares can reach over 400% ED in 1.1), then socket two Shaels.
Of course you can settle for the first or second breakpoint as well, but be aware that this will noticably affect your WW performance.

Meeting the third breakpoint is much easier on weapons with a base speed <= 0; this includes Scythes (which all have -10) and most spear-class weapons other than the Pike and its excep./elite versions. The Arreat Summit lists these values for every weapon in its Items section.

It also lists each weapon's range, which is the second important factor to consider when looking for a good WW weapon. The longer a weapon's range, the farther away you can be from monsters while still hitting them (but they being unable to hit you). War Scythes, Halberds, Spetums and Pikes have the greatest range (6), although a range of 5 is acceptable as well. Again, check the AS for values.

The idea, of course, being to find a balance between range and speed. The War Scythe (and excep./elite) requires 50% IAS to meet the third WW breakpoint, but also has a range of 6.
The Brandistock (+excep./elite) only requires 40% IAS, but its range is "only" 5. Of course there's also the Pike, which requires a whooping 80% IAS (effectively limiting you to a Cruel Pike/Lance/War Pike of Quickness with two Shaels), but its range is equal to that of the War Scythe and its average damage is superior to that of both War Scythe and Brandistock.

Which to choose? I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader. ;) Item availability being the deciding factor, of course. A rare Mancatcher can have all the IAS it needs for the third BP, without any need to socket a Shael/IAS jewel plus a significant amount of ED%, thanks to the new 1.1 rare affixes.
A Giant Thresher, requiring 50% IAS for BP #3, will need at least an IAS jewel to reach the third BP no matter what, but has a greater range than the Mancatcher. It will usually also have better average damage.
I've discussed the Pike already, you need a (prefixed, so pretty much Cruel) Pike of Quickness with two socketed Shaels if you want to reach the third BP, no way around that.

That's the gist of it. Of course there's more to it (there are Halberds, Poleaxes, various other spears, the question of whether the third BP is a must et cetera, ad nauseum), but this should give you an idea of what to go for.

(Why do I write stuff like this at 3am?)

[Teiur_Embisque]

You already have tones of advice, but i'll say that i've had good luck with 2 handed swords for ww. fast when outta mana, and with concentration, can really be powerfull (the defence bonus has saved me countless time when i've been swarmed). My friend has had some success with his ww barb, polearms, they do decent dammage, and have a long radius. Anyways thats it, and good luck.

[Occhidiangela]

WWology has been rendered untenable by the "spell timer" / "pause" feature of the 1.10 WW.

[Ruvanal]

WWology has been rendered untenable by the "spell timer" / "pause" feature of the 1.10 WW.

Which only happens when playing in SP mode. If you play in MP mode (TCP/IP Game) this problem should dissappear.

[Ignatz]

Really? I don't fully understand the "timer", then. Does it disappear in TCP/IP? I thought WW was nerfed beyond primary use...is that not the case on the realms?

[Ruvanal]

There are some serious problems with the 1.10 game and desync problems. These are actually worse if you are playing in SP mode as opposed to the MP mode (realm play is not possible in this beta patch).

Two very noticable problems are easily seen with the barbarian skills of Leap Attack and Whirlwind. With Whirlwind in SP mode there are the effects of the movement speed of the whirl using the characters run/walk speed and there ending up with about a 0.5 sec to 1.0 sec delay at the end of each leg of the whirlwind segments. If you try the same thing in MP mode the movement rate runs at a constant speed that is not effected by the characters run/walk speed and there does not appear to be any "pause" at the end of each segment (easily allow the Dance of Death manuever to work properly). I suppose that this is due to the client in SP mode to be using the r/w speed to show what you are doing and until the server side catchs up (which appears to still be using the unmodified by r/w speed) you are left having to wait to start the next leg.

I am seeing a lot of problems with monsters and minions suddenly jumping around on the screen, which to me is indicative of there be a sever positional dysync problem between the client and server sides of the game. If the client in SP mode is using a different speed for some movement actions and/or a different pathing algorithm (Isolde said that he had been working on this for the v1.10 game), then you will frequently be getting the client and server disagreeing on where monsters are at and what is allowed to be happening at certain points in the game. If your movement is too fast on the client side you will see effects like what is described for the v1.10 Whirlwind. If there are speed and pathing movement issues then you will get time that 'you' see a monster in a position to attack, but the server actually has it somewhere else which will cause things like "whiff" attacks. This may be the the most serious bug in the patch right now and the root cause of many other reported 'bugs' that are being complained about.

[jahcs]

Real nice avatar, DeathByDesign.

[DeathByDesign]

ty took me forever to make awhile back then i started to see it pop up on people's websites

[Raziel]

There are some serious problems with the 1.10 game and desync problems.&nbsp; These are actually worse if you are playing in SP mode as opposed to the MP mode (realm play is not possible in this beta patch).

Fascinating. Tell me, would playing host of a TCP/IP game with nobody else connected qualify as "MP mode"?

I always play TCP/IP mode as opposed to Single Player. I have noticed that I don't seem to be experiencing some bugs reported by others (namely, the Charge bug).

I wonder if this might be the cause of it; if some bugs might simply dissapear if we played TCP/IP hosts instead of SP.

[Ice]

ty took me forever to make awhile back then i started to see it pop up on people's websites.

By any chance do you happen to run a graphics site or just a site displaying your work?

I did come across the .gif file at some graphics site or work gallery while surfing the net for some dragon graphics all the way back in May 1999 and incidentally used it on my diablo website then. I did have an acknowledgement as to where I got the picture from but subsequently lost the url when my hard disk crashed. Been trying to find that site again since to no avail.

[DeathByDesign]

yeah i used to run a site with my work on it way back in the day but let it die when i made a diablo2 guild website which is still being worked on 4 years now :blink:

[Ruvanal]

Fascinating.&nbsp; Tell me, would playing host of a TCP/IP game with nobody else connected qualify as "MP mode"?

I always play TCP/IP mode as opposed to Single Player.&nbsp; I have noticed that I don't seem to be experiencing some bugs reported by others (namely, the Charge bug).

Yes this would qualify. This was how I double checked the WW bug when I first heard that it did not show up in MP mode.

I wonder if this might be the cause of it; if some bugs might simply dissapear if we played TCP/IP hosts instead of SP.

Yes, some will disappear and other will still be there. I still see the positional desync a lot even in MP mode. This is when I am seeing one of my act 2 mercs on the left of the screen (~5+yrds) attacking air and a monster on the right side of the screen ((~5+ yrds) dying and dropping an item in a place that does not correspond to where either was on my view of the area. :blink:

The problem is that even this needs to be pinned down and fixed before a final 1.10 release. Due to problems like I just described it can also make some types of testing useless until this problem is fixed.