01-30-2006, 05:46 AM
So, while talking to a few Bloodscalp natives, waxing nostalgic about the "good old days", where there was outdoor PvP (the undisputed best kind of PvP) aplenty, and the streets were paved in sold gold blocks and whatnot, we thought of what killed outdoor PvP and what could be done to fix it.
First, we're defining outdoor PvP as any kind of PvP that takes place outdoors. Whether it's a few random people ganking a few other random people, organized death squads, city raids, or even tournaments.
So, we're thinking about what killed outdoor PvP, and we came up with a few things:
First and foremost, the Battlegrounds. Combined with Contribution Point-based loot rewards and the fact that BGs are vastly superior to outdoor PvP for CP generation, that took away tons of people (to the point where some people refuse to PvP except in BGs) and turned even more into Honor farmers.
Second, civilians and the resulting DKs. We can understand the concept of DKs; it's to prevent people from griefing by camping quest NPCs all day and night. However, these DKs also make it very difficult to raid towns and cities, because the civvies just love rushing the mages (who are busily turning the thousands of zergspawning guards - another issue - into tasty little chunklets), which causes the entire raid to get a DK, and quite possibly instantly lose a rank or three.
Third, guard spamming. The way it is currently, raiding a town is almost impossible without several mages and/or warlocks around to AE them. For every guard you kill, six more spawn. This ends up with the raid fighting thirty or forty guards, plus players, all while trying to avoid killing the idiot civilians that rush into the killing zones.
Fourth, there's no real incentive, beyond the fun to be had. While I wish it were as simple as doing it for sheer fun, it would be hard to get enough people to really go at it over a town without some kind of incentive, be it loot, Honor, or something in between.
Now, for what we were thinking:
DKs have to go. They, perhaps even moreso than the Battlegrounds and their ability to be farmed, have hurt city raiding badly. We figure that the reason for DKs is simple: people would grief others by camping quest NPCs, and DKs are there to stop them from doing it (or, at least, prevent them from getting any ranks.) Our thoughts: Why not make these civilians completely invulnerable? Assuming you also make them unable to fight back, why not? This circumvents the griefing issue while freeing mages and warlocks up to AE to their hearts' content, without worrying about giving everyone in the raid a demotion for accidentally wasting Little Timmy.
Next, something needs to be done about the guards. Currently, they're little more than a breakwater and an annoyance; they're a complete nonthreat to anyone geared even in UBRS blues, and only serve to make several AE-capable casters necessary for extended town raids. Our solution is fairly simple: replace the zergspawn guards that come about from killing the initial roaming guards with stronger, Elite guards that are far fewer in number.
Say you're raiding Southshore: you've already killed the guards roaming about. Instead of having six or seven more Lv.55 normal guards spawn for every guard you kill, why not have a Lv.61 or Lv.62 Elite or two spawn? This would give Protection Warriors, Protection Paladins, and Dire Bear Druids a real place in PvP (besides the obvious player-killing uses), since these Elite guards would hit much harder, be harder to kill, and would actually be a significant threat, when you consider there will be ten or so of them running around at any given time. The idea is that you'll be fighting ten Elite guards (still easily handled by a large raid, but a significant deterrent to a small five- or ten-man sortie), as opposed to thirty normal guards. If no hostile players are seen for a certain amount of time, the Elite guards despawn, the normal guards respawn, and things go back to normal. Obviously, you wouldn't have Lv.62 Elites spawn from Lv.30 guards (instead, perhaps Lv.32 Elites), which would allow lower-level town raids to be possible.
Next, we still need incentive for these town raids. In capital cities, we have racial leaders: why not have Commanders for the larger towns (such as Southshore, Tarren Mill, Stonard, Theramore Isle, and so forth)? While allowing basic and the new Elite guards to give CP would lead to CP farming in towns (which would just be a resurfacing of the initial release of the Honor System, before Warsong Gulch came about), why not have a Commander and some special guards spawn in response to a major assault on the town?
This Commander could be worth a decent chunk of CP (assuming the racial leaders are 12,000, these commanders could be worth 1,000-7,000, depending on their level, and their guards worth perhaps 150-750), and could perhaps drop a decent amount of coin (in the area of 1g-50g, maybe) to offer additional incentive for town raiding. Now, these Commanders won't be there at all times; they only show up in response to a major assault on their respective town (after, say, fifteen minutes of constant combat), and they'd be far from pushovers. These Commanders could be the equivalent of Rend Blackhand or General Drakkisath (for the mid-level towns) to the range of the Zul'Gurub bosses (for the highest-level towns), with their guards being potent high-level Elites. Additionally, after being killed, these Commanders will not spawn again for at least a day or more, preventing them from being completely farmable.
We believe that changes akin to these would help revive outdoor PvP and town-raiding, would give more casual players a better chance at attaining Officer-level ranks, and would offer a viable, dynamic PvP option for CP generation.
Thoughts, comments?
First, we're defining outdoor PvP as any kind of PvP that takes place outdoors. Whether it's a few random people ganking a few other random people, organized death squads, city raids, or even tournaments.
So, we're thinking about what killed outdoor PvP, and we came up with a few things:
First and foremost, the Battlegrounds. Combined with Contribution Point-based loot rewards and the fact that BGs are vastly superior to outdoor PvP for CP generation, that took away tons of people (to the point where some people refuse to PvP except in BGs) and turned even more into Honor farmers.
Second, civilians and the resulting DKs. We can understand the concept of DKs; it's to prevent people from griefing by camping quest NPCs all day and night. However, these DKs also make it very difficult to raid towns and cities, because the civvies just love rushing the mages (who are busily turning the thousands of zergspawning guards - another issue - into tasty little chunklets), which causes the entire raid to get a DK, and quite possibly instantly lose a rank or three.
Third, guard spamming. The way it is currently, raiding a town is almost impossible without several mages and/or warlocks around to AE them. For every guard you kill, six more spawn. This ends up with the raid fighting thirty or forty guards, plus players, all while trying to avoid killing the idiot civilians that rush into the killing zones.
Fourth, there's no real incentive, beyond the fun to be had. While I wish it were as simple as doing it for sheer fun, it would be hard to get enough people to really go at it over a town without some kind of incentive, be it loot, Honor, or something in between.
Now, for what we were thinking:
DKs have to go. They, perhaps even moreso than the Battlegrounds and their ability to be farmed, have hurt city raiding badly. We figure that the reason for DKs is simple: people would grief others by camping quest NPCs, and DKs are there to stop them from doing it (or, at least, prevent them from getting any ranks.) Our thoughts: Why not make these civilians completely invulnerable? Assuming you also make them unable to fight back, why not? This circumvents the griefing issue while freeing mages and warlocks up to AE to their hearts' content, without worrying about giving everyone in the raid a demotion for accidentally wasting Little Timmy.
Next, something needs to be done about the guards. Currently, they're little more than a breakwater and an annoyance; they're a complete nonthreat to anyone geared even in UBRS blues, and only serve to make several AE-capable casters necessary for extended town raids. Our solution is fairly simple: replace the zergspawn guards that come about from killing the initial roaming guards with stronger, Elite guards that are far fewer in number.
Say you're raiding Southshore: you've already killed the guards roaming about. Instead of having six or seven more Lv.55 normal guards spawn for every guard you kill, why not have a Lv.61 or Lv.62 Elite or two spawn? This would give Protection Warriors, Protection Paladins, and Dire Bear Druids a real place in PvP (besides the obvious player-killing uses), since these Elite guards would hit much harder, be harder to kill, and would actually be a significant threat, when you consider there will be ten or so of them running around at any given time. The idea is that you'll be fighting ten Elite guards (still easily handled by a large raid, but a significant deterrent to a small five- or ten-man sortie), as opposed to thirty normal guards. If no hostile players are seen for a certain amount of time, the Elite guards despawn, the normal guards respawn, and things go back to normal. Obviously, you wouldn't have Lv.62 Elites spawn from Lv.30 guards (instead, perhaps Lv.32 Elites), which would allow lower-level town raids to be possible.
Next, we still need incentive for these town raids. In capital cities, we have racial leaders: why not have Commanders for the larger towns (such as Southshore, Tarren Mill, Stonard, Theramore Isle, and so forth)? While allowing basic and the new Elite guards to give CP would lead to CP farming in towns (which would just be a resurfacing of the initial release of the Honor System, before Warsong Gulch came about), why not have a Commander and some special guards spawn in response to a major assault on the town?
This Commander could be worth a decent chunk of CP (assuming the racial leaders are 12,000, these commanders could be worth 1,000-7,000, depending on their level, and their guards worth perhaps 150-750), and could perhaps drop a decent amount of coin (in the area of 1g-50g, maybe) to offer additional incentive for town raiding. Now, these Commanders won't be there at all times; they only show up in response to a major assault on their respective town (after, say, fifteen minutes of constant combat), and they'd be far from pushovers. These Commanders could be the equivalent of Rend Blackhand or General Drakkisath (for the mid-level towns) to the range of the Zul'Gurub bosses (for the highest-level towns), with their guards being potent high-level Elites. Additionally, after being killed, these Commanders will not spawn again for at least a day or more, preventing them from being completely farmable.
We believe that changes akin to these would help revive outdoor PvP and town-raiding, would give more casual players a better chance at attaining Officer-level ranks, and would offer a viable, dynamic PvP option for CP generation.
Thoughts, comments?
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
The original Heavy Metal Cowâ¢. USDA inspected, FDA approved.
The original Heavy Metal Cowâ¢. USDA inspected, FDA approved.