Three tree rogue build

[Concillian]

Couple things I'd like to take a contrary position on here, both because I believe them, but also for good debate, Conc. :)

1. Cold Blood is NOT neccesary, however useful it may be. In some sense it reminds me of MS.  Amazing, but the talents you have to take to make it there... leave a little something to be desired, not that there's anything wrong with them per se, but just not... juicy. :)

No, it's not absolutely necessary, but in PvP (I did preface my initial post with 'in PvP') it is very, very, very useful.

I think the assassination talents are quite good...
Improved Eviscerate is great, as that is usually the finisher of choice, especially so in PvP.
Malice... yeah 5% crit is something few rogues will choose NOT to get, again especially in PvP.
Ruthlessness / Relentless add to sustained damage, mostly helping in soloing and group PvE.
Lethality is most useful with improved BS, SS, or Hem. Not a ton of overall damage, but adds to burst damage in PvP, something generally more important than sustained damage.
Imp. instant poison is where I put my other points, because I find a reasonable amount of my damage is coming from instant poison when I'm soloing (was ~35-40 DPS or so @60 with 0/5 in imp. instant poison, so one point here would be a ~4DPS increase per talent point on average when you have 2 weapons poisoned with deadly poison, not huge, but on a per talent point basis, not horrible either.)

I guess a difference of opinion on the usefulness of the talents.

2. Improved Ambush IS very good, however blowing CB on an ambush just means you wasted 3 talent points and a huge amount of potential.  Your chance to crit is so high to begin with on Amush that it's far more efficient to use CB on the finisher.

While I agree in most cases, it is not the thing to do to use CB on ambush, there are times where you want to in PvP.

An example would be their 2 rogue team facing mage/priest. You NEED one to go down before he has a chance to react. Else you will be frost nova'd then feared all while being pelted relentlessly. You don't have 5 seconds to get to a finisher, as both have instant cast spells that will instantly reverse the advantage of the situation. If you attack the mage, he will probably instinctively either nova or blink then nova when he sees who he's up against, at which point one will likely be polymorphed while the priest heals the mage, then it's 2 on 1. If you go after the priest, you are in the same situation with fear while the polymorph is cast, then the 2 on 1 action.

If you can take one down in 2-3 seconds, then you have 2 rogues at full health and either a priest or a mage, an almost guaranteed quick win scenario. If you can't, the odds are significantly less favorable.

It's not every case where this is what you want to do, but occasionally 100% crit rate is infinintely better than 60%. Plus, not all builds have improved ambush. I didn't intend to imply that it was something you wanted to use in a majority of situations. I'm sorry if that is how it came across.

3.  Keep in mind that sometimes for an optimal build (which for rogues, is like trying to find a perfect snowflake... it exists, for you, but be damned if you can find it... I  spent nearly 600g respeccing mine,  :D I was on 50g respecs before lvl 60  :blush: ) you may need to respec with regards to Murder.  It's obviously great for leveling, but as you gain gear, some of which may have +%tohit on it, the talent becomes less and less useful, as the openers all count as yellow hits, and therefore have 95% base tohit.  Also if you're taking Precision, Murder doesn't benefit you.

I agree with that.

However, the person I specifically addressed in regards to this 1) didn't have precision in his build, and 2) I know is likely not going to be 60 with great access to +x% to-hit gear anytime soon. The characters in question are still in their teens. Both are alts with relatively low playtime.

I also agree with Treesh that there really isn't a bad rogue build.

VM, if Vor is going engineering, I'd suggest perhaps you go Blacksmithing just for the purpose of getting this:
Glimmering Mithril Insignia

It's at least as useful as many of the engineering items. WOTF is nice, but pre-emptive anti-fear is even nicer, and Vor, you can probably imagine the feeling a priest would get when they see that yellow 'Immune' pop up after they hit their Psychic Scream key.