All warrior and Paly groups?

[Kevin]

But is loot the only real problem?

I play a warrior now(I used to play a rogue) and its seems with a arms or fury set up that DPS is just fine but you take a lot less damage. I see no real reason to want a rogue in a group and while a mage can be situationally excellent, it seems a raid may go just as fast with a all warriors for dps because you almost never stop.
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The problem with DPS warriors later on (and yes with the right gear and spec fury/arms warriors can get close to rogues) is that warriors have no way to drop aggro if they get. You might say "well that is no big deal" but the dual weilding fury arms warrior in battle or zerker stance is still going to take significantly more damage than that protection warrior with sword and board in def stance.

The hardest thing for me to hold aggro on is another warrior in DPS mode with the right spec and gear. They simply can't reduce it, and if they pull it on something like Onyxia she turns and kills half the raid with her breath. :) Also when a warrior pulls aggro and can't shed it it's very likely the healers are not even looking at the health bar for that warrior and unlike the rogue who can shed the aggro to buy time for heal the warrior may die. I've seen fury/arms warriors pull aggro and die in our Molten Core raids. I see rogues pull aggro and then drop it then get a heal on them a bit later.

In the 10-15 man raids it doesn't matter but then again in those places with decent gearing the mages and warlocks can AoE all the time too.

In a five man you lose the extra CC that a rogue can provide, the distracts that prevent a pat from adding in while you repostion, the blind that buy you some extra time. And in five man a warrior pulling aggro doesn't take much less healing than a rogue who simply avoids about 10% more damage with the higher dodge and same parry while the warrior is mitigating the damage by 15% more or so (no shield on the DPS warrior so probably only 40% damage mitigation). Anything that isn't CC'd means more damage to the party, even if it is being off tanked, means more healing.

Even still you are correct in that you can usually replace a rogue with a DPS build warrior and not lose much of anything. This is why rogues are not happy. They are still barely the top of the DPS pile but they have no other utility in most instances and many groups are too impatient to let that utility be used anyway.


Oh and back to the original post. I did Gnomer with 2 warriors and 3 paladins and Uldaman with 3 warriors and 2 paladins and we didn't have any real problems. The 2nd paladin did helpt to provide some healing at times but generally it was just me doing the healing and the other paladin doing DPS with us providing 2 blessing and 2 auras to the group. I wouldn't say the groups moved any faster than any other 5 man, but as long you play to a groups strength any 5 in an instance should be able to move quickly.