vor_lord,Nov 2 2005, 10:05 AM Wrote:Was thinking about this, and I realized that Sap and Mind Control are mutually exclusive.Actually, they aren't. It just depends on how you use them. In BRD (although apparently they have changed things a bit), the demon dogs see through stealth and if there's one in a group, it makes it extremely difficult to sap. It used to make it basically impossible to sap (unless you got really, really lucky), but now, iirc, Ramala (Quark's level 60 rogue) has sapped a group close to dogs recently.
Mind Control is more effective (actually kills an enemy rather than just taking them out of combat for a time), but it slows the battle more, and is more dangerous when it fails.
How about if the early group tries to use Sap? If we have problems with it being broken that aren't being corrected, we can switch to mind control.
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Anyway, you have to start the fight with a sap if you're going to attempt to sap. If the rogue has improved sap, there's much less risk involved. If Rogoll doesn't have improved sap (I just can't remember his spec right now), just make sure evasion is off of cooldown for some of the bigger groups. You can apply mind control after the fight starts. You've got Durambar in front of you. Warriors can actually tank multiple mobs. ;) :D (So can druids and pallies for what it's worth ;) ) When I mind control, I don't start the pull with a mind control (btw, if you try it in BRD, frequently even at level 60 I body pull before I'm in range of mind control, depending on which target I have). Yes, this means that not everything is beating on the mind controlled target, but if you're smart about what you mind control, you don't have to have it work that way and it will still be effective and won't slow down the fights. In going to Bael'Gar, I used mind control a lot. Instead of sheeping/sapping the medics, have the priest mind control one. You can use their mana to heal and if you alternate between the single target heal and the area of effect heal of the medic, it's actually pretty easy to heal and do your crowd control at the same time. It also has the added bonus of really pissing off the enemy into attacking your mind control target so there's less need of healing of your party members. You will also have a backup healer in the group with the priest so it's really not as risky to mind control as you might think for the groups of enemies that don't have healers in them. Outside of raiding, Aleri (dwarf priestess) is still frequently the only healer in the group, but I can frequently get away with mind controlling when I need to. Of course, it also helps that the folks in front of her are typically geared up a bit higher than us Terenas folks are, but even before any purples, she was mind controlling when necessary and keeping the group afloat. It shouldn't be an issue mind controlling and sapping in BRD for that group.
Edit: Also, with starting MC after the battle has begun, you also have one more "person" beating the crap out of the enemy. The quicker the others die, the less healing it takes for a fight too. :) It's also much more controllable aggro to do mind control after the pull. There isn't as big of a question about what critters are going to break off and try to eat what after the mind controlled mob is dead.
Intolerant monkey.