The Lurkers on Tich

[Bolty]

Not when you kept restarting your characters, repeatedly ran through the "gauntlet," which at the time was the 20-40ish levels (now, it's the 50's),[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

Right, like the level 47 Warlock I had that rarely if ever got ganked at all.

and when you mostly hung out in pseudo-alliance areas like Redridge, Duskwood, and the Wetlands, where of course most of your "PvP experience" would be ganking rather than real and fun PvP.  You also stuck to your philosophy of getting every quest in an area rather than using flexibility and teamwork to avoid the gankers.[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

I spent a few days in Redridge. I spent 2+ weeks in STV, the most battle-insane area of a PvP server. Remember that time I was grouped with you (and played really poorly, having an off day)?

I believe I likened your experience to walking into an area known to have a high crime rate late at night, getting mugged, and then shouting that the crime rate for the entire country was outrageous.[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

Well, yeah, that kind of summed the experience up for me. Remember that my goal was to evaluate the PvP environment. Good analogy! :)

Nope, but the reader can choose to be insulted or not.  It's a matter of giving the writer the benefit of the doubt.  I guess Mirajj has experienced the word "carebear" to be some gross insult and perhaps at one time, it was considered that way.  But it's a commonly used every-day term that it's lost most of the stigma applied to it.  One can choose to be insulted by the term "carebear" or one can read it as the common gamer shorthand term for "person who prefers PvE content and does not wish PvP content to interfere with one's gaming."[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

I guess people have experienced the word "nigger" to be some gross insult and perhaps at one time, it was considered that way. But it's a commonly used every-day term that it's lost most of the stigma applied to it. One can choose to be insulted by the term "nigger" or one can read it as the common derogatory term to "person of African descent."

Oops. Hmm, maybe it's derogatory to some people! Gasp! You just can't seem to accept that. I've been on PvP servers. People THERE use the term carebear constantly, just like "n00b," so that they can feel superior to other players.

Regarding Bolty's alleged "insult," it was for words that I had neither written nor implied.  I never said that Lurkers were "mindless zombies who will do anything [Bolty] says."  If someone gets insulted by something I didn't write, that shows you're absolutely right that I can't choose whether someone else gets insulted.[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

Since no posters here have come forward and stated they felt insulted by your statements, I retract that. I feel that your words implied that they can't make up their own minds, but I haven't heard that from anyone else so I'll stop. Sorry. I concede that point.

Remember that while I was on the PvP server in beta, I tried to convince others to come over to try PvP and FAILED. Failed badly! I don't know what other proof there is that Lurkers will make up their own minds...

Of course, the background to this discussion is that Bolty and I have had both public and private exchanges on this issue.  I even begged Bolty to stop posting some of his more scathing commentaries, because I felt that it was interfering the in the creation of a possible vibrant Lurker PvP on-line guild on Tichondrius.  This is an old argument.  Bolty thinks he was just writing what he saw and that people just went to where they would have gone anyway.  I think that there were several players who were on the fence but who were so burned by Diablo II's "PvP" that they chose to go to Stormrage when Bolty confirmed their worst fears.  No amount of "Bolty's not telling you the whole story" reponses were going to overcome that, especially when Bolty kept going on-and-on and told in endless detail about that mage who terrorized him in Redridge.  People make decisions like these based on emotion and gut-feeling, and the moment I and others came back with, "Well, yeah, that can happen, but..." the game was over, no matter how much we described how you can avoid the gankings, how you could use teamwork to help you, how much fun PvP in WoW is, how the PvP aspect adds an extra sense of thrill and excitement to what otherwise would be another collection quest or farming run, and how PvP creates a much stronger sence of community and comraderie among players in your faction.[right][snapback]88251[/snapback][/right]

You're playing revisionist history. My posts are still there, go find them. You'll note that I state everything you just wrote about community, comraderie, and the thrill of PvP. You recall my accounts of the gankfests in Redridge Mountains - do you recall my accounts of the joy I felt when I turned the tables and smacked down a ganker 6 levels above me on the Shimmering Flats? I used that a few times as an example of the fun to be had. You can be ganked - but nothing's more fun than plastering a ganker.

Read the posts again - I'll even make it easy for you - I outlined pros and cons. And I came up with PvE as a better server choice, especially with a total lack of honor system at release.

These posts started to become more vehemently opposed to PvP as words like "carebear" started to appear here. It was reciprocal. If you want to put down people who don't prefer to have their gameplay dictated to them by other players, then expect them to respond explaining why your choice of gameplay is inferior. Who fired first? I'm not sure, but it escalated fast.

It never ends...your grudge against me will be eternal, I think.

-Bolty