Raiding as we go forward

[Kevin]

Miss One Raid: No movement down the list (#$%& happens, right?)
Miss Two Consecutive: 2 spots down the list
Miss Three Consecutive: 6 spots down the list (I get more severe :D )
Miss Four Consecutive: 20 spots down
Miss Five or More: Poof, bottom.

Now, what happens if a person hits every other raid?  Honestly, I'm fine with not moving them at all.  I know people like Mirajj can't always make it because of work, but usually makes at least every other raid, and Mirajj is always a big contributor.
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I don't like the Miss Two raids moving down the list either. Why?

Well I set up Saturday raids because we have people that can only make the Saturday raids, they can not do the weekend raids at all. We are a fluid raid group so we can be inclusive as possible. I don't see how dropping people back 2 spots everytime is going to help make them want to attend. I don't think it will necessarily hurt their shot at loot because generally there will be someone else of their class that won't be there as well. But it still won't always make them feel like going. Our list is going to be about 60 or 70 deep I think as well, not just 40. I need to think more about the list and run some sims to see what will happen to those people that can only make one raid a week.

I don't want a static raid group that then makes all the others scramble to do stuff. I like the fluid group that gets as many people a chance to see this end game stuff as possible. We still have a lot of casual players that are quality additions to the raid. I don't want to penalize them heavily.

The list also has a good chance of hurting the multi 60 crowd. Taranna has been in most of the Onyxia raids lately because we've had fewer people at them and we need the healing more than the tanking. Gnolack has been in Molten Core because we've needed the tanking but not the healing as badly. Yes with a larger pool of players to pull from I might not need to do good the raid anymore but I certainly don't want Taranna and Gnolack at the front of the list because we move GG up but I also don't want Taranna at the back of the list and Gnolack with the chance to slip back 6 slots because we need Taranna more that night but I had been playing Gnolack in the raids lately. I also don't want myself or Bun-Bun, or Lissa or Dragoon, or Tal, or Treesh, or anyone else I missed with two or more 60's to have to give up the freedom of choice of who to play. This is also why Gnolack is so willing to let Anadrol, Darian, and Telsak get better tank gear first, even though right now it's arguable that he might be better geared for Molten Core than all but Anadrol right now (yeah I might have better tank gear than Darian right now and this was before I won the pants).

I still think despite the potential for disaster of a council that an IA type of system where we do track accomplishments of that character/person and what they have gotten but then we decide where the loot goes based on that council decision is the better way to go. When you simply won't be able to make progess to something new because someone lacks the HP or FR to handle the situation or because we don't have a leatherworker that can make the Onyxia capes that you need to go into BWL or what not you need to do stuff like this. We're already kinda doing this for the crafted stuff anyway. But yes I do see how people from CA might think that lurkers are only going to give loot to lurkers. The "dedication" category they had will also reward someone like Sabra who left the raid so that we could bring in Flyndar and have a higher chance of success on Magmadar even though she wouldn't have been there for that boss kill. A straight point system would have hurt her there, a list wouldn't have helped her too much on the next mage gear that dropped, unless mage gear dropped off Mag and she got moved up because someone won and got moved down.

But I could live with a list or a point system or just staying with what we do now as well. There are flaws in every system. We need to decide which flaws are the best to live with for the way our raids work and how we want our raids to work. Then we need to make sure that this information is out there and available for everyone who comes on the raids with us. I'm still not sure that this discussion is even being seen by all the people who need to know about it and that bothers me.

Anyway I have people that want my alt to go to BFD with them so I should wrap this up.