08-20-2005, 07:12 PM
Edited for gross verbosity.
The roots of the culture in South and Latin America, for all that progress has of course occurred over the generations. The American system owes its constitutional and Parliamentary system to its mother country, England. I decipher the First Ammendment's prohibition against Congress establishing an official religion as directly anti-Papist in origin. Expicitly. We'll leave the Freemasons and Illumaniti out of this, they got the back of the one dollar bill. :D
Some of us think for ourselves, and synthesize what we learn into an idea. If you see that descriptive as reductionist, that is part of the problem of using labels as shorthand. Me, I have stopped even pretending to be politically correct.
For all the progress the revolution south of the Rio Grande made in terms of adapting the modern, European benevolent socialist to the tumultuous political scene of the New World, the apparent inability to break from the old autocratic models of the Old World seems to be one constant theme.
Let's take a peek back to the pre Enlightenment era. Pre Rennaisance, and thus to a certain extent, pre Protestant era. Spain, the mother culture of South and Latin America, was Papist. It is only relatively recently that Spain might be considered non Papist, non autocratic.
Look at the development of the post Revolutionary nation, the reaction that led to a Hapsburg, a Papist again, trying to recolonize Mexico, just as the reaction to 1848 re asserted the Nobility and the Pope's supremacy in Europe.
-- hooray for firing squads --
Then look at the fundamental agricultrual economic model. How well does birth control play in such a society? Compare that to Europe, where most nations are at low, zero or negative population growth rates. Massive population movements are prime catalysts for political change, and political conflict. The Celts were immigrants from somewhere East of the Caspian, and of course the Vandals and the Goths likewise. So too the Turks. Population pressure is a profound cause of strife.
Consider the efects, pro and con, of the Industrial revolution, but leave out the moderating effects of effective dissent and opposition, an inherently non Papist norm, a non autocratic norm. See how even the recent social revolutionary movements are tied to Papism: Liberation Theology.
What you have is the text book case of an inferior cultural model to the American model, or what used to be the American model. Not a big surprise to see people leaving it.
The Americn model changes over time, and I'll argue that the polarization you see so vividly portrayed as political has deeper roots. The American penchant for developing "aristocracies of the rich" that brought us the Industrial Barons of the late 19th century appears to be emerging once again, but this time the playing field is global.
WIth NAFTA and CAFTA, it appears that some movers and shakers are trying to reinvigorate the Peon class on an Industrial hacienda. Deliberately. Globally. The bae cultural affinity for oligarchic and autocratic "norms" is not a mind set I'd prefer to see imported.
Tequila, on the other hand, is fine and dandy. ;)
Occhi
wakim,Aug 20 2005, 11:56 AM Wrote:What is meant by the phrase a "papist hacienda system?"
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The roots of the culture in South and Latin America, for all that progress has of course occurred over the generations. The American system owes its constitutional and Parliamentary system to its mother country, England. I decipher the First Ammendment's prohibition against Congress establishing an official religion as directly anti-Papist in origin. Expicitly. We'll leave the Freemasons and Illumaniti out of this, they got the back of the one dollar bill. :D
Some of us think for ourselves, and synthesize what we learn into an idea. If you see that descriptive as reductionist, that is part of the problem of using labels as shorthand. Me, I have stopped even pretending to be politically correct.
For all the progress the revolution south of the Rio Grande made in terms of adapting the modern, European benevolent socialist to the tumultuous political scene of the New World, the apparent inability to break from the old autocratic models of the Old World seems to be one constant theme.
Let's take a peek back to the pre Enlightenment era. Pre Rennaisance, and thus to a certain extent, pre Protestant era. Spain, the mother culture of South and Latin America, was Papist. It is only relatively recently that Spain might be considered non Papist, non autocratic.
Look at the development of the post Revolutionary nation, the reaction that led to a Hapsburg, a Papist again, trying to recolonize Mexico, just as the reaction to 1848 re asserted the Nobility and the Pope's supremacy in Europe.
-- hooray for firing squads --
Then look at the fundamental agricultrual economic model. How well does birth control play in such a society? Compare that to Europe, where most nations are at low, zero or negative population growth rates. Massive population movements are prime catalysts for political change, and political conflict. The Celts were immigrants from somewhere East of the Caspian, and of course the Vandals and the Goths likewise. So too the Turks. Population pressure is a profound cause of strife.
Consider the efects, pro and con, of the Industrial revolution, but leave out the moderating effects of effective dissent and opposition, an inherently non Papist norm, a non autocratic norm. See how even the recent social revolutionary movements are tied to Papism: Liberation Theology.
What you have is the text book case of an inferior cultural model to the American model, or what used to be the American model. Not a big surprise to see people leaving it.
The Americn model changes over time, and I'll argue that the polarization you see so vividly portrayed as political has deeper roots. The American penchant for developing "aristocracies of the rich" that brought us the Industrial Barons of the late 19th century appears to be emerging once again, but this time the playing field is global.
WIth NAFTA and CAFTA, it appears that some movers and shakers are trying to reinvigorate the Peon class on an Industrial hacienda. Deliberately. Globally. The bae cultural affinity for oligarchic and autocratic "norms" is not a mind set I'd prefer to see imported.
Tequila, on the other hand, is fine and dandy. ;)
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete