Well I was going to start my own thread, but I see no reason to not put all the discussion here. So I'm putting my spec here too.
Having gotten some end game exp now and having worked with some paladins and playing mine to L37 so far I've started to think about the end game roll. It seems to me if there is more than one warrior around the warriors will be the main tanks, off tanks, and possible the main assists. In a 5 man the paladin would be more of the main assist, tanking the focus fire target while the warrior is dealing with the non CC'd mobs. The paladin will also be put into the roll of a back up healer. There may be some rare cases where they are called on to be a main tank but in our guild with what we have for classes I don't see that happening as much. Paladins will also be some minor DPS.
To me that seems to rule out much of the protection tree. While the improved seal of fury would help greatly with aggro if you needed to grab it, I'm hoping the slight DPS increase of retribution would help with that too.
I do believe that you could put together a paladin build that could be an effective main healer if you gear for it fully work to be the main healer. I'm not looking for that because I doubt that will be the roll a paladin will need to fill either. Besides I have my restoration/feral spec druid that can do that. :)
Build summary, detials on skill to follow:
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might - 5/5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 5/5
Deflection - 5/5
Vengeance - 5/5
Seal of Command - 1/1
Precision - 3/3
Consecration - 1/1
Conviction - 5/5
Blessing of Kings - 1/1
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus - 5/5
Improved Holy Light - 3/3
Illumination - 5/5
Divine Favor - 1/1
Improved Seal of Righteousness - 5/5
Improved Flash of Light Rank 1/3
Holy Total: 20
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might - Rank 5/5
Increases the Attack Power bonus of your Blessing of Might by 20%.
- Need a skill to get into the tree this has helped me with soloing and there aren't a lot of retribution skills I'll be casting so cutting the mana cost doesn't seem too helpful. This is more beneficial to a party.
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - Rank 5/5
- Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 5%.
I see paladins with 2 handers on a lot. More DPS is more DPS. :) The improved Crusader could be helpful too, but this one helps no matter what seal I have up.
Deflection - Rank 5/5
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.
- I need it for precision, which I want, and parry is a good thing for when I get aggro or when soloing. Since I'm going 31/20 this does pretty much rule out anticipation, but since I probably won't have a lot of defense gear I probably won't be able to get my defense up to the levels where it better than the 5% parry would be. I also won't be tanking things for long so the 0.4% lower dodge, parry and block and the lessened crit chance aren't as important as pure damage avoidance.
Vengeance - Rank 5/5
Gives you a 15% bonus to Physical and Holy damage you deal for 8 sec after dealing a critical strike.
- More damage after a crit. I'll be going down to conviction to help with my crit chance as well. Though it will probably on be around 10-12% crit at best. That is still a bit more damage now and then. And when you are just adding what DPS you can that is better than nothing.
Seal of Command - Rank 1/1
55 Mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of command for 30 sec, giving the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to the damage of the Paladin's weapon. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 sec, causing 24 Holy damage anytime the enemy becomes stunned. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.
- This is my big damage adder. The judgement is pretty pointless but you can put out some nice hits with this. With the 2 handed weapon spec and the extra crit chance this becomes more important. It doesn't help with the streaky aggro generation problems I already have but again I don't see a lot of tanking and if it takes aggro for a bit, better me, who can heal myself than a squishy.
Precision - Rank 3/3
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 3%.
- Hitting things is good. This helps a bit with steady aggro generation. It helps with the minor DPS add. It helps when soloing. My warrior wants it. :)
Consecration - Rank 1/1
235 Mana
Instant cast 8 sec cooldown
Consecrates the land beneath Paladin, doing 120 Holy damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area.
- If I do have to tank this is critical for AoE aggro generation. It also does minor damage and can help hold the trash mobs for a pulse when the real AoE people apply damage. It also helps when you need to escort little L9 gnomes who get bugged up to the Alterac Valley BG and need to get away. :)
Conviction - Rank 5/5
- Increases your chance to get a critical strike with melee weapons by 5%.
Well I want more damage I want more consistent damage the more I crit the better.
Blessing of Kings - Rank 1/1
75 Mana 30 yd range
Instant cast
Places a Blessing on the friendly target, increasing total stats by 10% for 5 min. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.
- Tis a good Blessing and I've gone deep enough to get it. It's Mark of the Wild for the stats that character cares about. A good blessing for anyone and if you have more than one pally that can give people blessings it's just that much better.
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus - Rank 5/5
Gives your Flash of Light and Holy Light spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.
- With Concentration aura up I can no longer be interrupted when casting a heal. This is a big deal while out solo and could be very helpful if called upon to main heal or even have to take over healing for a group. And Balador has been the main healer in several instance runs already. But it a better solo skill.
Improved Holy Light - Rank 3/3
Increases the amount healed by your Holy Light spell by 12%.
- I'll take at least 149 more healing on my highest rank of Holy Light. With the 400 more from blessing of light that makes my Holy Light as good as a Flash of Light and untalented Holy Light put together. Besides if I'm going to be doing some healing I might as well be better at it.
Illumination - Rank 5/5
After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light or Holy L
ight spell, gives you a 100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.
- So if my heal crits, it's free. Since I'll have mana issues most likely when in heal mode that can help.
Divine Favor - Rank 1/1
60 Mana
Instant cast 2 min cooldown
When activated, gives your next Flash of Light or Holy Light spell a 100% critical effect chance.
- Ah ha! Take this and Illumination and I get a free mana crit heal. Sure it's not the instant cast ability of the druid or shaman. But it is similar to the Priest's Inner focus which gives them a free cast that has a good chance of a crit heal. So the paladin has to have the mana first to cast his crit but the priest gets a cast while out of mana basically.
Improved Seal of Righteousness - Rank 5/5
Increases the damage done by your Seal of Righteousness by 15%.
- OK so it only adds another 10 or so damage, but I belive the affect stacks with judgement of the crusader. My L34 SoR does 50 holy damage a proc when I judge crusader. If I had this talent now I think from what I understand the base 29 that is upped to 50 with the judgement would actually be 57 with this talent not 54. So I think this would add about 20 damage with a judged crusader on a target. This one procs pretty regularly too. So if nothing else it will help some of my soloing early. Besides I want some more points to get a bit deeper into the tree and the other early talents don't look that helpful. If I need Lay on Hands every 40 minutes we have bigger problems. Spending points to improve Lay on Hands doesn't seem to wise since it won't be used that often and I'm not sure 30% more armor would help that much anyway.
Improved Flash of Light - Rank 1/3
Reduces the Mana cost of your Flash of Light spell by 4%.
- Again I needed one more point somewhere. While a cheaper heal spell is nice dropping the mana cost by 17 fully talented doesn't seem to be that big a deal. This may go away, as might the Improved Seal or Righteousness.
Holy Total: 20
The big question comes down to Improved SoR and Improved Flash of Light. Or Improved Blessing of Wisdom and 1 point in Divine Wisdom (Improved Blessing is a prereq). Divine Wisdom would give me 2% more mana. Blessing of Wisdom talented is 36 vs 30 mana every 5 seconds. My Blessing of Kings will probably help more than either of those as it will increase my mana pool as well.
Edit: Added summary of skills, fixed readability some.
Having gotten some end game exp now and having worked with some paladins and playing mine to L37 so far I've started to think about the end game roll. It seems to me if there is more than one warrior around the warriors will be the main tanks, off tanks, and possible the main assists. In a 5 man the paladin would be more of the main assist, tanking the focus fire target while the warrior is dealing with the non CC'd mobs. The paladin will also be put into the roll of a back up healer. There may be some rare cases where they are called on to be a main tank but in our guild with what we have for classes I don't see that happening as much. Paladins will also be some minor DPS.
To me that seems to rule out much of the protection tree. While the improved seal of fury would help greatly with aggro if you needed to grab it, I'm hoping the slight DPS increase of retribution would help with that too.
I do believe that you could put together a paladin build that could be an effective main healer if you gear for it fully work to be the main healer. I'm not looking for that because I doubt that will be the roll a paladin will need to fill either. Besides I have my restoration/feral spec druid that can do that. :)
Build summary, detials on skill to follow:
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might - 5/5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 5/5
Deflection - 5/5
Vengeance - 5/5
Seal of Command - 1/1
Precision - 3/3
Consecration - 1/1
Conviction - 5/5
Blessing of Kings - 1/1
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus - 5/5
Improved Holy Light - 3/3
Illumination - 5/5
Divine Favor - 1/1
Improved Seal of Righteousness - 5/5
Improved Flash of Light Rank 1/3
Holy Total: 20
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might - Rank 5/5
Increases the Attack Power bonus of your Blessing of Might by 20%.
- Need a skill to get into the tree this has helped me with soloing and there aren't a lot of retribution skills I'll be casting so cutting the mana cost doesn't seem too helpful. This is more beneficial to a party.
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - Rank 5/5
- Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 5%.
I see paladins with 2 handers on a lot. More DPS is more DPS. :) The improved Crusader could be helpful too, but this one helps no matter what seal I have up.
Deflection - Rank 5/5
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.
- I need it for precision, which I want, and parry is a good thing for when I get aggro or when soloing. Since I'm going 31/20 this does pretty much rule out anticipation, but since I probably won't have a lot of defense gear I probably won't be able to get my defense up to the levels where it better than the 5% parry would be. I also won't be tanking things for long so the 0.4% lower dodge, parry and block and the lessened crit chance aren't as important as pure damage avoidance.
Vengeance - Rank 5/5
Gives you a 15% bonus to Physical and Holy damage you deal for 8 sec after dealing a critical strike.
- More damage after a crit. I'll be going down to conviction to help with my crit chance as well. Though it will probably on be around 10-12% crit at best. That is still a bit more damage now and then. And when you are just adding what DPS you can that is better than nothing.
Seal of Command - Rank 1/1
55 Mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of command for 30 sec, giving the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to the damage of the Paladin's weapon. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 sec, causing 24 Holy damage anytime the enemy becomes stunned. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.
- This is my big damage adder. The judgement is pretty pointless but you can put out some nice hits with this. With the 2 handed weapon spec and the extra crit chance this becomes more important. It doesn't help with the streaky aggro generation problems I already have but again I don't see a lot of tanking and if it takes aggro for a bit, better me, who can heal myself than a squishy.
Precision - Rank 3/3
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 3%.
- Hitting things is good. This helps a bit with steady aggro generation. It helps with the minor DPS add. It helps when soloing. My warrior wants it. :)
Consecration - Rank 1/1
235 Mana
Instant cast 8 sec cooldown
Consecrates the land beneath Paladin, doing 120 Holy damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area.
- If I do have to tank this is critical for AoE aggro generation. It also does minor damage and can help hold the trash mobs for a pulse when the real AoE people apply damage. It also helps when you need to escort little L9 gnomes who get bugged up to the Alterac Valley BG and need to get away. :)
Conviction - Rank 5/5
- Increases your chance to get a critical strike with melee weapons by 5%.
Well I want more damage I want more consistent damage the more I crit the better.
Blessing of Kings - Rank 1/1
75 Mana 30 yd range
Instant cast
Places a Blessing on the friendly target, increasing total stats by 10% for 5 min. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.
- Tis a good Blessing and I've gone deep enough to get it. It's Mark of the Wild for the stats that character cares about. A good blessing for anyone and if you have more than one pally that can give people blessings it's just that much better.
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus - Rank 5/5
Gives your Flash of Light and Holy Light spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.
- With Concentration aura up I can no longer be interrupted when casting a heal. This is a big deal while out solo and could be very helpful if called upon to main heal or even have to take over healing for a group. And Balador has been the main healer in several instance runs already. But it a better solo skill.
Improved Holy Light - Rank 3/3
Increases the amount healed by your Holy Light spell by 12%.
- I'll take at least 149 more healing on my highest rank of Holy Light. With the 400 more from blessing of light that makes my Holy Light as good as a Flash of Light and untalented Holy Light put together. Besides if I'm going to be doing some healing I might as well be better at it.
Illumination - Rank 5/5
After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light or Holy L
ight spell, gives you a 100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.
- So if my heal crits, it's free. Since I'll have mana issues most likely when in heal mode that can help.
Divine Favor - Rank 1/1
60 Mana
Instant cast 2 min cooldown
When activated, gives your next Flash of Light or Holy Light spell a 100% critical effect chance.
- Ah ha! Take this and Illumination and I get a free mana crit heal. Sure it's not the instant cast ability of the druid or shaman. But it is similar to the Priest's Inner focus which gives them a free cast that has a good chance of a crit heal. So the paladin has to have the mana first to cast his crit but the priest gets a cast while out of mana basically.
Improved Seal of Righteousness - Rank 5/5
Increases the damage done by your Seal of Righteousness by 15%.
- OK so it only adds another 10 or so damage, but I belive the affect stacks with judgement of the crusader. My L34 SoR does 50 holy damage a proc when I judge crusader. If I had this talent now I think from what I understand the base 29 that is upped to 50 with the judgement would actually be 57 with this talent not 54. So I think this would add about 20 damage with a judged crusader on a target. This one procs pretty regularly too. So if nothing else it will help some of my soloing early. Besides I want some more points to get a bit deeper into the tree and the other early talents don't look that helpful. If I need Lay on Hands every 40 minutes we have bigger problems. Spending points to improve Lay on Hands doesn't seem to wise since it won't be used that often and I'm not sure 30% more armor would help that much anyway.
Improved Flash of Light - Rank 1/3
Reduces the Mana cost of your Flash of Light spell by 4%.
- Again I needed one more point somewhere. While a cheaper heal spell is nice dropping the mana cost by 17 fully talented doesn't seem to be that big a deal. This may go away, as might the Improved Seal or Righteousness.
Holy Total: 20
The big question comes down to Improved SoR and Improved Flash of Light. Or Improved Blessing of Wisdom and 1 point in Divine Wisdom (Improved Blessing is a prereq). Divine Wisdom would give me 2% more mana. Blessing of Wisdom talented is 36 vs 30 mana every 5 seconds. My Blessing of Kings will probably help more than either of those as it will increase my mana pool as well.
Edit: Added summary of skills, fixed readability some.
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It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.