02-26-2005, 10:59 PM
Many thanks for your comments, which as I wait for my copy to arrive are of great help in figuring out my gameplan
It's hard from the perspective of a non-WoWer to separate differences of philosophy from differences of knowledge. The "you can never have too much crowd control" seems absurd to me - would players want to have a two mob pull where 4 of the team sheep/sap the superfluous one mob?
It's perhaps an extension of a philosophy I saw in D2 where people used Bone Walls and Dim Vision to avoid the requirement for good positioning in hardcore. An old and off-topic argument but I felt that while there were terrific players who had great positioning and a safety build, there were other players who insisted on safety being essential because they hadn't developed the positional skills to survive hardcore without it. This lead to an insistence that D2 Hardcore requires crowd control skills which actually it doesn't. So I'm thinking that instead of pumping dodge and parry and getting away with it when I blunder into trouble I'll leave them at start values and try to develop a playstyle that doesn't require a Things Go Wrong build
On the other hand it's quite possible that I'm a silly noob who doesn't know anything about the game who is about to land with a bump when I try this out
Still, clearly Improved Sap is demanded both because it's uber and because I think MMOs are extremely unforgiving of variant scum. If 2 of the three people in my area putting together decent groups know I lack Improved Sap and won't group me because of that that's a real hit to my play experience, much more than it would have been in Diablo 2. That's the clincher - if you're going to be left out of groups because of your build you need a different build irrespective of effectiveness. MMOs are political.
Working in Improved Sap proved to be extremely easy, almost all the pre-req skills help Ambush which I'd like at the heart of the build
This gives me a new build of:
Assassination Talents (31 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Remorseless Attacks - 5/5 points
After killing an opponent that yields experience, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Ghostly Strike.
Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.
Vigor - 1/1 point
Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
Combat Talents (0 points)
None
Subtlety Talents (20 points)
Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.
Initiative - 4/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
My game-plan for Ambush is to ride the brink between grabbing aggro and not doing so which I anticipate will be a matter of the tank's tactics and practice with the timing.
My game-plan for Cold Blood & Eviscerate will be to try to time it to land the killing blow. Kill-stealing, if you like, from the rest of the group. Hopefully they'll agree to help me do that by timing their big hits for when the mob is not almost dead. That not only sets up a Remorseless Attacks bonus but also means that the big hit that steals aggro is also the one that inflicts the most effective form of crowd control - death!
It does sound like I'll have a bit of a rocky ride but the idea of pumping the Combat tree to build what's basically a Fighter with Stealth is not nearly so appealing
I'm also persuaded that I should no longer use the word "optimal" anywhere near this build, leaving me chuckling over the notion that my build - a rogue who doesn't tank - is something of a wierdo variant one ;)
It's hard from the perspective of a non-WoWer to separate differences of philosophy from differences of knowledge. The "you can never have too much crowd control" seems absurd to me - would players want to have a two mob pull where 4 of the team sheep/sap the superfluous one mob?
It's perhaps an extension of a philosophy I saw in D2 where people used Bone Walls and Dim Vision to avoid the requirement for good positioning in hardcore. An old and off-topic argument but I felt that while there were terrific players who had great positioning and a safety build, there were other players who insisted on safety being essential because they hadn't developed the positional skills to survive hardcore without it. This lead to an insistence that D2 Hardcore requires crowd control skills which actually it doesn't. So I'm thinking that instead of pumping dodge and parry and getting away with it when I blunder into trouble I'll leave them at start values and try to develop a playstyle that doesn't require a Things Go Wrong build
On the other hand it's quite possible that I'm a silly noob who doesn't know anything about the game who is about to land with a bump when I try this out
Still, clearly Improved Sap is demanded both because it's uber and because I think MMOs are extremely unforgiving of variant scum. If 2 of the three people in my area putting together decent groups know I lack Improved Sap and won't group me because of that that's a real hit to my play experience, much more than it would have been in Diablo 2. That's the clincher - if you're going to be left out of groups because of your build you need a different build irrespective of effectiveness. MMOs are political.
Working in Improved Sap proved to be extremely easy, almost all the pre-req skills help Ambush which I'd like at the heart of the build
This gives me a new build of:
Assassination Talents (31 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Remorseless Attacks - 5/5 points
After killing an opponent that yields experience, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Ghostly Strike.
Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.
Vigor - 1/1 point
Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
Combat Talents (0 points)
None
Subtlety Talents (20 points)
Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.
Initiative - 4/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
My game-plan for Ambush is to ride the brink between grabbing aggro and not doing so which I anticipate will be a matter of the tank's tactics and practice with the timing.
My game-plan for Cold Blood & Eviscerate will be to try to time it to land the killing blow. Kill-stealing, if you like, from the rest of the group. Hopefully they'll agree to help me do that by timing their big hits for when the mob is not almost dead. That not only sets up a Remorseless Attacks bonus but also means that the big hit that steals aggro is also the one that inflicts the most effective form of crowd control - death!
It does sound like I'll have a bit of a rocky ride but the idea of pumping the Combat tree to build what's basically a Fighter with Stealth is not nearly so appealing
I'm also persuaded that I should no longer use the word "optimal" anywhere near this build, leaving me chuckling over the notion that my build - a rogue who doesn't tank - is something of a wierdo variant one ;)