Hunter talent discussion
#15
I've taken the time to look over the survival talents just so I could post about them.

Survival

These are talents aimed at a melee hunter. As such it is the tree most neglected. The majority of hunters want to stay at range as often as possible and so go either Markmanship to increase their ranged skills or Beast Mastery to increase their pet skills which allows them to stand back at range easier. If a person wanted to make a build around the Survival tree though, it does feel like it might be possible. It would take alot more micro managing of your pet though I think because wit ha survival build YOU are wanting to be the one the mob tries to hit. So you will have your pet probably using cower instead of growl, except for with add control. So thus there could be a lot of switching between growl and cower.


Level 1

Usually these are the talents that are easiest to get in any build. So often you will find talents at this level that are more generally usesful. This is actually not the case with the Survival tree though. Both other trees tend to cancel this tree out and so it is less used even at this level.


Precision
Rank 1/5: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 1%.
Rank 2/5: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 2%.
Rank 3/5: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 3%.
Rank 4/5: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 4%.
Rank 5/5: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.


I often consider these talents to be a kind of waste. A player just doesn't miss often enough to really make this useful. Maybe it would be useful with dual wielding because it will cancel out some of the higher miss chance that comes from that. I've heard some people recommend dual weilding for interupting mages in PvP and its not too bad in PvE either (though I would probably go with a big two handed weapon instead myself). Some PvP builds like to get to level 2 in this tree and so this is possibly the better level 1 skill for those who are just going that far.

So overall I find this talent lacking, but while looking to build a Survival based build I found that I would get to level 55 and have no abilities that I really wanted to get. I also ran into a few places where there were gaps to fill to get to the next tree. So this skill could end up getting maxed just because its the lesser of the bad skills.

Improved Raptor Strike
Rank 1/5: Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike by 0.2 sec.
Rank 2/5: Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike by 0.4 sec.
Rank 3/5: Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike by 0.6 sec.
Rank 4/5: Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike by 0.7 sec.
Rank 5/5: Reduces the cooldown of your Raptor Strike by 1.0 sec.


This seems like the better of the two skills at this level for a Survival hunter. Raptor Strike is one of the few special attacks a melee hunter gets and so the ability to use it more often should be something that will be good for the build. Basically it ups your damage output some.


Level 2

I find it interesting that this level can be a goal level for PvP builds, but that for PvE Survival Tree oriented builds it feels like not such a good level. Requires 5 points in level 1 which I'd put in Precision for a PvP build and Improved Raptor Strike for a PvE Survival build.


Entrapment
Rank 1/5: Gives your Immolation Trap, Frost Trap, and Explosive Trap a 5% chance to entrap the target, preventing them from moving for 5 sec.
Rank 2/5: Gives your Immolation Trap, Frost Trap, and Explosive Trap a 10% chance to entrap the target, preventing them from moving for 5 sec.
Rank 3/5: Gives your Immolation Trap, Frost Trap, and Explosive Trap a 15% chance to entrap the target, preventing them from moving for 5 sec.
Rank 4/5: Gives your Immolation Trap, Frost Trap, and Explosive Trap a 20% chance to entrap the target, preventing them from moving for 5 sec.
Rank 5/5: Gives your Immolation Trap, Frost Trap, and Explosive Trap a 25% chance to entrap the target, preventing them from moving for 5 sec.


This seems like an interesting skill. The chance to entrap a mob 25% of the time should be good right? To be honest though, I don't think it is any good. For a Survival build. you are going to be meleeing the mob. So its not going to be moving anyway. For a PvP build, you could do it at the beginning of a fight and maybe the entrapment would be useful,. but there are just so many better places for your talent points really. Its just too awkward to use really. For a Beast Mastery build its also not muc huse because the mob isn't going to be moving while fighting your pet. So it ends up seeming pointless to me. Now, if you could lay traps while in combat, then it might be more useful. Maybe then you could lay one, let it entrap, then back away. Even in this case though, I think you might use Freezing Trap instead since you want the guaranteed stop instead of the chance for one and don't care as much about damage.


Lightning Reflexes
Rank 1/3: Increases your Dodge chance by 1%.
Rank 2/3: Increases your Dodge chance by 2%.
Rank 3/3: Increases your Dodge chance by 3%.


At 3% this seems like a small amount. A Survival build wants to dodge as often as possible because they can use a special whenever they dodge and so this is definately a skill you want to take. It also might be useful for PvP, though I'm unsure if it is worth the points or not. Overall this is a good skill though.


Improved Wing Clip
Rank 1/5: Gives your Wing Clip ability a 4% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
Rank 2/5: Gives your Wing Clip ability a 8% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
Rank 3/5: Gives your Wing Clip ability a 12% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
Rank 4/5: Gives your Wing Clip ability a 16% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
Rank 5/5: Gives your Wing Clip ability a 20% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.


This talent has some of the same downfalls as Entrapment. For a Beast Mastery or Survival build mobs won't be moving anyway and so the talent is waste. Wing Clip is often useful in PvP though and so giving it a chance to immobilize and thus letting you get away even easier can be very nice. So its a skill to consider for that.


Level 3

At this level you start to get to where the only Build is a Survival Build. The PvP consideraton drops off quite a bit. Requiring 10 points, I tend to find that there is a bit of a gap here. The only level 2 talent I find good for a Survival Build is Lightning Reflexes. That talent only takes 3 points though and so you have 2 more to spend. I'd probably go back and put them in Precision in order to get to this level.


Improved Immolation Trap
Rank 1/5: Increases the damage done by your Immolation Trap by 3%.
Rank 2/5: Increases the damage done by your Immolation Trap by 6%.
Rank 3/5: Increases the damage done by your Immolation Trap by 9%.
Rank 4/5: Increases the damage done by your Immolation Trap by 12%.
Rank 5/5: Increases the damage done by your Immolation Trap by 15%.


In a Survival build you basically have two choices. Either to pump your traps or try and pump your pet a little bit. My feeling is that you just don't have enough extra skill points to pump your pet enough to matter. So my that would lean me towards pumping my damage traps some. This talent adds 15% to your Immolation Trap, which does 690 at Rank 5. So it adds, roughly, an extra 100 fire damage. Seems worth it to me.


Improved Mongoose Bite
Rank 1/5: Increases the damage done by your Mongoose Bite ability by 4%.
Rank 2/5: Increases the damage done by your Mongoose Bite ability by 8%.
Rank 3/5: Increases the damage done by your Mongoose Bite ability by 12%.
Rank 4/5: Increases the damage done by your Mongoose Bite ability by 16%.
Rank 5/5: Increases the damage done by your Mongoose Bite ability by 20%.


Mongoose Bite is one of your few melee attacks other than Raptor Strike. Its also the reason that you want alot of dodge. (other than just taking less damage of course) Increasing the damage for one of your main abilities is always a good thing.


Deterrence
Rank 1/1: Instant 5 min cooldown
When activated, increases your Dodge and Parry chance by 25% for 10 sec.


Both dodge and parry not only help you survive longer, but have attacks keyed off of when they happen. So while you can't do it often because of the cooldown, it could be very useful in a tough fight. Definately worth the 1 point I think.


Level 4

Requires 15 points in the tree. 5 in Mongoose bite will get you here, but I like Deterrence too so if you want both, you will have to decide when you want to put the extra poitn in the last tree.


Improved Freezing Trap
Rank 1/3: Increases the duration of your Freezing Trap by 2 sec.
Rank 2/3: Increases the duration of your Freezing Trap by 4 sec.
Rank 3/3: Increases the duration of your Freezing Trap by 6 sec.


Since Freezing Trap breaks with any attack and can't be laid during combat, it seems to not be all that useful for a Survival Hunter. The increased time could maybe me used to help handle an add that you knew was coming, but in general I think its just a waste.


Improved Disengage
Rank 1/2: Increases the amount of Threat reduced by your Disengage ability by 10%.
Rank 2/2: Increases the amount of Threat reduced by your Disengage ability by 20%.


What? You want to reduce your threat? No! As a Survival hunter you want to be getting hit so you can dodge and parry. You want as much threat as possible. So this seems like a bad deal. Might be useful in groups where there is a main tank, but I think normal Disengage would be fine for that. Could maybe help get out of a fight that you are losing, but I think that overall its not that worthwhile. It did just occur to me though that maybe you could disengage, let your pet keep the mob where it is, lay a trap, then re-engage. If that works (and your pet keeps attacking after a disengage and doesn't bring you back in combat mode) then it could maybe me interesting to use. So maybe instead of going back and maxing Precision, you could put some 2 points in this. Thats only if it allows you to effectively lay a trap in combat.


Deflection
Rank 1/5: Increases your Parry chance by 1%.
Rank 2/5: Increases your Parry chance by 2%.
Rank 3/5: Increases your Parry chance by 3%.
Rank 4/5: Increases your Parry chance by 4%.
Rank 5/5: Increases your Parry chance by 5%.


Pretty similiar to Lightning Reflexes, this skill both helps you survive and increases how often you can use a special. Seems like a good thing to me.


Level 5

Deflection seems to be the way to go to get the 20 required points that you need to access this level. After writing about Disengage though, I'm starting to wonder if it could be useful as well. Something to consider.


Improved Frost Trap
Rank 1/2: Increases the duration of your Frost Trap's movement slowing effect by 1.5 sec.
Rank 2/2: Increases the duration of your Frost Trap's movement slowing effect by 3.0 sec.


Once again, you are going to be meleeing the mob. I don't see any use to slowing its speed if you are going to be running up to it.


Savage Strikes
Rank 1/5: Increases your critical strike chance with melee weapons by 1%.
Rank 2/5: Increases your critical strike chance with melee weapons by 2%.
Rank 3/5: Increases your critical strike chance with melee weapons by 3%.
Rank 4/5: Increases your critical strike chance with melee weapons by 4%.
Rank 5/5: Increases your critical strike chance with melee weapons by 5%.


More critical strikes means more damage and more hate. Both things you want for this build. So this is an easy skill to choose.


Counterattack
Rank 1/1: 45 Mana 5 yd range Instant cast 5 sec cooldown
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 40 damage and immobilizes the target for 5 sec. Counterattack cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried.


I look at this as the Mongoose Bite for parrying. It could actually be slightly better in that it can't be blocked, dodged, or parried and so is almost a guaranteed connect. (you could still miss) I'm not sure how the immobilize helps any though.


Level 6

Requires 25 points. With 6 points being worthwhile in the last level, this should be easy to get to.


Improved Explosive Trap
Rank 1/2: Increases the initial damage done by your Explosive Trap by 30%.
Rank 2/2: Increases the initial damage done by your Explosive Trap by 60%.


This adds, roughly, 120-150 initial damage to your Exploding Trap. This feels like a good investment to me. You can only have 1 trap out at a time and so can't use both Exploding and Immolation, but they kind of serve different purposes. Immolation is for single targets and Exploding is for groups. So I think it is fine to pump them both.


Melee Specialization
Rank 1/5: Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 1%.
Rank 2/5: Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 2%.
Rank 3/5: Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 3%.
Rank 4/5: Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 4%.
Rank 5/5: Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 5%.


Well, 5% doesn't feel like alot, but more damage is always good. So definately a taker.


Level 7

Both level 6 abilities are worth the points in my mind and so the 30 point requirement here is no problem.


Lacerate
Rank 1/1: 65 Mana 5 yd range Instant cast Requires Melee Weapon
Wounds the target causing them to bleed for 77 damage over 21 sec.


At one point and with you having already spent the requirements to get here, I can't see why you wouldn't take this. Its only 77 damage and is over a long time, but it is more damage.


So, where does that leave this build? Lets see:

Improved Raptor Strike
Precision
Lightning Reflexes
Improved Mongoose Bite
Deterrence
Improved Immolation Trap
Deflection
Melee Specialization
Counterattack
Improved Explosive Trap
Savage Strikes
Lacerate

Survival Total: 40

Thats only counting 2 points in Precision. This leaves you 11 points to spend. I think that Aspect of the Monkey is perfect here and so I would put 5 in Endurance training and then 3 in Improved Aspect of the Monkey. (both in the Beast Mastery tree of course) So thats 8 points down, leaving 3 points. These can go anywhere you want. I'd say either Improved Disengage (if it works so that you can lay another trap mid-fight) or finish maxing Precision.


Overall, I would say that the Survival tree is the weakest of the three. It does feel like there is a build to be had in it though. I just don't know how well such a build would actually do.

edit: capitalization of a skill reference
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Messages In This Thread
Hunter talent discussion - by swirly - 02-05-2005, 11:28 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by Pesmerga - 02-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Pesmerga - 02-05-2005, 02:55 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Ruvanal - 02-05-2005, 03:25 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Thecla - 02-05-2005, 08:41 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by swirly - 02-05-2005, 09:04 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by playingtokrush - 02-05-2005, 10:51 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Bob the Beholder - 02-06-2005, 12:08 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by Thecla - 02-06-2005, 01:08 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by Bob the Beholder - 02-06-2005, 01:47 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by Ruvanal - 02-06-2005, 12:49 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Zelc - 02-07-2005, 05:11 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by playingtokrush - 02-07-2005, 06:05 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by Thecla - 02-07-2005, 07:38 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by swirly - 02-07-2005, 02:18 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Xanthix - 02-07-2005, 05:58 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by playingtokrush - 02-08-2005, 02:44 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by smithy - 02-08-2005, 05:43 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by malphigian - 02-08-2005, 05:59 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Raziel - 02-14-2005, 06:06 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by kandrathe - 02-17-2005, 07:29 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by kandrathe - 02-17-2005, 07:43 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by kandrathe - 05-19-2005, 05:02 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Chesspiece_face - 05-19-2005, 09:22 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Artega - 05-19-2005, 09:58 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Metrocube - 05-30-2005, 09:33 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by russ - 05-30-2005, 04:56 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by savaughn - 05-31-2005, 04:09 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by Brista - 06-02-2005, 10:52 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by savaughn - 06-02-2005, 02:20 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by kandrathe - 06-07-2005, 02:12 AM
Hunter talent discussion - by savaughn - 06-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Hunter talent discussion - by kandrathe - 06-15-2005, 02:56 PM

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