There will be no real PvP system

[MongoJerry]

Wow Mongo, that's a really great read.  I've gone through it and I'm impressed with the job he did at analyzing populations.

Definitely. It's a classic paper that I understand is required reading in some computer science classes and game development companies. It'll definitely be worth a link in the community section.

So, what you're saying is that a level 25-ish character should go to Ashenvale?  That's about the only option left.  And that was only deserted because the Horde had a handful of quests there that most didn't bother doing.  That is (or has already) going to change.

If all other methods of clearing out the griefer fail and the area that a level 25ish player is playing in is indeed unplayable, then yes there is still the option for that player to go to another area for a bit. Taking your example of the level 60 mage who kept griefing you in Redridge, a level 25ish player (and level 25 is a bit high for Redridge, isn't it?) can go to Duskwood, Wetlands, Ashenvale, and Stonetalon for outdoor areas. For instance dungeons, such a player can go on Stockades and Blackfathom Deeps runs and can soon start going on Gnomeregan runs. A mid-20's level player doesn't have the options open to a mid-40's level player, but yes there are still options.

Note that this does not excuse the griefer, and I hope GM's will be given some power to suspend or ban the worst griefers. However, even for a mid-20's player, there are options.

And of course I kept starting new characters!  I'm an Explorer - I want to see and try everything.  I played Warlocks, Priests, Mages, Warriors, and Rogues, and my only regret was that I lacked the time to try out more classes.  It IS a very time-consuming game, after all.  In the end, I had played over 9 different characters significantly.  To me, reaching level 60 and running the same instances over and over again is rediculously dull.  Maybe that's why we can't see eye to eye - you are maybe 50% Explorer, 50% Achiever.  You can't deny that you spent quite a lot of time running for loot and goodies.  I don't mean to demean your playing style - everyone enjoys these games in a different way.

Holy cow! Have you ever got me pegged wrong! Would an achiever write the Adventures of Neriad stories, considering they take three times longer to write than to actually play? No way, that'd be a total waste of time for an achiever. Would an achiever write guides for other players to use? No way, an achiever wouldn't want to give away secrets (unless the person knew they'd get something back for it)! Would an achiever play a pacifist necromancer or a punching sorceress? :lol: Give me a break!

No, no, no. I'm a 60% explorer, 30% social, and 10% (at most) achiever. As far as my exploring goes, I prefer depth over breadth. I like to take certain zones, instance dungeons, and character classes (priest and to some extent hunter) and get to know every single little detail about them. For exploration purposes, I run the same instances dozens of times, because I know that there's no way that you can learn everything about an instance after only playing in it a couple times. I love figuring out tricks to dungeons and finding areas of instances that most people bypass. This can be shown in my Scholomance journals where I went through every single quest series even remotely related to Scholomance, and I had to learn about every little trick for the place and discovered quite a few of my own. (For example, to my knowledge, I was the first one to come up with the idea of ghosting through doors to get through the main gate in Stratholme. At least, I know I was the one who gave the idea to some of the more well known "achiever" types on the PvP server who went on to implement my idea -- over and over again).

Regarding running instances repeatedly, you have my motivations all wrong. I care very little about items. It is the social aspect to instances that I love. I love being in a group of five or more players and taking on a challenge together. It's the reason why I play a priest. An achiever would play a warrior or a mage, who could solo much more efficiently. As a priest player, however, I can join practically any group I want to, and along the way, I get those "thanks" from people who I heal or save. That's the stuff I crave. And it's the reason I love the PvP server more than the PvE server. People group up much more on the PvP server than on the PvE server, because the danger is greater and there's more us-vs-them comraderie.

I do get items and I certainly don't mind when I get something nice, but items are not my goal. Want to know what my three favorite items that the beta Neriad had? My favorite was the "Piccolo of the Flaming Pyre" that when activated would cause all nearby players (within 30 yards?) to start dancing. God I loved that thing! My second favorite was the Barov Family (something) trinket that called forth three servants of the Barov Family to cook, clean, and fight for you. Everytime I saw them pop out and say, "A spot of tea, gov'ner?" I just rolled with laughter. My third favorite item was my cannon trinket. I mean who wouldn't want to be able to call forth a mini-cannon?

I was at a point where I could write solid play guides for 3 different classes and be a knowledgeable source for another.  You might argue that one can't write a good guide for a class if they don't get them to level 60, but in reality higher level characters employ very similar tactics that mid level characters do, just in different situations.  Since AFAIK only Warlocks have new spells after level 40 currently (pfft), I think I'm justified in that point.

You're right that I would argue that you can't write an excellent guide for a class if you don't get them to level 60. You can write a passable guide, and I'll be happy to take anything you create, but no if you haven't gotten the character to level 60 and played it level capped a while, then you're missing a lot of the potential of your character. The most obvious thing you'll be missing is the experience with the high-end talents and the different configurations of talents that can radically alter the gameplay of your character. But aside from that, I submit that you really don't learn to play your character until you have to fight mobs that test you to the limits of your character and abilities, and that's what you see at the high levels. It's also at the high levels where you meet other highly experienced players with whom you can exchange ideas about equipment configurations, talent setups, and tactics. At the low-to-mid levels, you can get away with a lot of sloppy play, but at the levels, there's less room for error, and therefore that's where you really get to know your character. But again, this difference in our approaches shows the "depth versus breadth" philosophical difference between us.

However, I found myself getting tired of a character any time it got even close to the level cap.  That level 39 mage I had reached the cap early on in the beta and I never played him again, as an example.

Oy! I remember those level 39 level capped days. They seemed interminable, and I think that's probably why you thought I was somehow achiever oriented, because I kept running the Scarlet Monastery over and over and over again. There were some things you didn't know were going on, though. Besides the social aspects of running the instance that I found enjoyable, I got skill points and cash (actual cash or items to sell on the Cosmos auction) to support my trade skills habits. As you say, there are ways to explore a game that don't involve traveling, and one of those ways I explored was experimenting with trade skills. With Ariadne, my undead priestess at the time, I maxed out as much as was possible every trade skill that was available at the time except blacksmithing -- and I was just starting to work on that when the patch finally came out that added the PvP server.

But back to the issue at hand. Bolty, you're missing something big here, and I've tried to show it to you and everyone else here with the journals near the end of the beta. Level 60 is not the end. It is only the end of the first stage of the life of your character. Seriously, listen. This is not like Diablo II where once you killed Baal and the Cow King, there was nothing more to do. There are vast stretches of lands and huge new instances that are devoted to serving characters who are level capped. There is a lot of content now for level capped players to explore, and what's more I predict that 80% of all new content from this point forward will be targetted directly at level 60 players. The level 1-59 content is mostly done. Battlegrounds, the PvP honor system, raid instances and epic quests are going to be largely geared toward the level 60 player.

Now, the primary reward for those epic quests, PvP honor points, and raid instances will be items. At this, point, you may take a monastic approach and shun such worldly goods. Here I say that you may still be in too much of a Diablo II mode. In Diablo II, powerful items were the bread and butter of the achiever crowd. The only purpose to having a Windforce, for example, was the prestige of owning a Windforce. One certainly didn't need a Windforce or any such uber powerful items, to beat the game, as we have all shown in our own ways countless times.

However, items play a different role in WoW, especially after one is level capped. You seem to have no problem with the idea of leveling a character as a means of advancement or openning up new areas of the game to that character. But what is leveling, really? You kill enough mobs to reach a magic experience point number where you get more stats, some incrementally more powerful spells, the ability to hit enemies more easily, and the ability to dodge or resist enemy attacks more easily. What happens when you're level capped and you kill a mob that drops a really nice item? Why, you get more stats, possibly some incrementally more powerful spells (e.g. "+30 to shadow spells"), maybe the ability to hit enemies more easily, and maybe the ability to dodge or resist enemy attacks more easily. When you reach level 60, items become the means by which you continue level. You might not get that satisfying thunderous sound and gold glow that surrounds your character when you reach the next magic experience point number, but the effect is the same.

And this is Blizzard's intention. The developers have specifically said that incrementally harder and harder small-group and raid instances will be added to the game where one will need to be wearing the better items from the previous less difficult instance if one is going to have any chance of success. I didn't know what they meant until Onyxia was added. After joining raid after raid on her, it slowly sank in that in order to beat her, we needed fire resist gear. Not 20 or 30 or 50, but at least two hundred and preferably over three hundred fire resist. By the end of the beta, the group with whom I raided Onyxia, which included some high power capital A achievers, came to the same conclusion. Had we known about Onyxia ahead of time and had known we should have saved all those "junky" items that had fire resist on them, we could have won. (We got her to 63% as it was -- a little bit after she starts flying and searing the place).

And Onyxia is considered a level 1 raid instance. I don't think anyone got anywhere past the front guards of the Molten Core, and the instances -- raid and single group -- that the Blizzard developers are thinking up are going to be even harder than the two raid instances that have already been implemented. If you want to explore those high level instances, which I do, then you're going to have to spend the time gathering the best items you can from the slightly easier instances and epic quest lines that come before them.

Obtaining level 60 is not the end. It's just the start of a new phase for your character.