09-05-2004, 05:54 AM
Quote:I am unsure about certain timings in the game. Ie. when to expand and when to tech to a higher tier. Most replays I see have people teching fairly fast. Comments? I'm intrested in this for Night elves and for humans.
The main problem is that I would have to produce more workers for the new expansions which leads to upkeep issues. But, how many workers do you need? I seem to never have enough lumber.
You should tech to a higher tier, in two cases.
A: You feel like you will not lose any more then 2 workers to harass, during your upgrade.
B: You NEED higher tier units, ASAP, because you see your opponent getting a unit countered by them. That usually occured if your opponent teched faster then you. I'll go into a few build orders later.
You should expand, in two cases.
A: You feel that it is safe for you to creep your expansion, without the fear of either losing your army, or some buildings to an attack.
B: You are dominating your opponent, but he is teching up, to build counter-units. Since his tech is faster then yours, and you may already be in upkeep, its more difficult to counter by teching back - instead, tech AND expand.
Worker woes:
You need 5 workers for gold mining. Just to make sure.
I, myself, like to get 8 workers on lumber harvesting - if I'm Undead, though, I usually get 2 ghouls in the early game, and another during my tech to tier 2.
Quote:- Also, are nature's blessing and that masonary upgrade worth your while?
Unless you are getting a good amount of static defense, or you are literaly rolling in resources, it's not that improtant - do note, however, that if you do not have a TP scroll, and your enemy attacked your expansion, those upgrades could make the difference between saving it, and losing it.
Quote:- Items, there are so many! Which should I buy? (again with emphasis with night elves and humans)
If you are going for really intesnse early harass, you should buy boots of speed, from the neutral shops. A Warden with those things is just SICK, as is a Mountain King (Although, sick in hero killing, not harass).
Also, if you can afford them, get Healing Scrolls, and Scrolls of Protection - the former heal your army for 150 hp each in combat, while the latter add 2 to it's defense - a virtual 12% bonus in life, vs non-spell damage. When you combine the two...
As for your racial shops, Healing Scrolls are obviously a must, if you want to patch up your army - just remember, their non-combat nature ends the healing effects, if the target is attacked. Clarity potions are a given, if your heroes need mana - I try to always keep 1 on each hero, so I can resore my mana in the field, after a battle.
Moonstones are good, if your opponent is not Night Elf - during the "night", your moonwell juice is replenished.
Mechanical critter is usually not worth it - easier to plunk down a sentry ward. They have horrible sight radius.
Ivory towers are nice, but just that - nice. Usually not worth it.
The orbs - usually too rich for my blood. The most useful ones are the Orb of Corruption, from an Undead shop, placed on a Lich (Because of his insane attack speed), and the Orb of Shock, on a Blademaster, for ultimate hero killing.
The staves are nice to save tier 2/3 units, such as knights, bears, and the occasional mountain giant. But, really, if you are having enough difficulties microing in heated battles already, you are just going to forget to use those staves.
I don't really use the Anti-magic potion, and it is very rare that I see anyone using it. Like 1/200 games rare. Would be nice when coupled with a channeling ultimate, like Starfall, or Tranquility, if your opponent has some nasty stunners.
Quote:What the heck should I do about people who use invisbility earlly on?
If you are referring to Shadowmeld, then there would be two instances where it would be used.
A: During lone hero harass.
Try to surround the hero, or cut off it's escape route - making a "Semi-closed" base layout, like the one I outlined would help a LOT. That pretty much forces your opponent to waste his TP. Oh, and here's a tip - don't waste a TP to save a lvl 1 or 2 hero. They cost less to revive then it does to buy a new one. However, if your hero is lvl 3+, or you are going to lose a hero, and a unit, don't think twice before casting.
B: During an early attack.
This is more difficult - if your opponent shadowmelds his archers, just as your footmen get to them, while others continue hitting you, he has good micro. In order to defeat good micro, you will need to best him in micro, macro, or plain dumb luck. Try to focus fire on the non-shadowmelded units, while telling 2 or 3 footmen, or a hero to hold position near the shadowmelded ones, to preent you from running back and forth. Alternatively, you can retreat into your base, and get some help from your static defenses. Or, if you are Night Elf, you can use the Dust of Appearence.
Quote:I would watch more replays, but it gets kinda boring.
Which is why you should listen to the audio commentaries! Those narrators are just plain funny.
Quote:Thanks for the advice. The blizzard site is pretty poor in giving advice, and I have yet to find a decent source beyond those who can only say "stfu n00b."
"stfu n00b."
:P
As for the build orders that I promiced, here's two that work quite nice.
Human: Rifle/caster tech.
1 peasant on altar, 4 on mine. Order some more peasants.
First peasant to be built makes a farm. Try to use your buildings as an aformentioned wall.
Second peasant goes to gold.
Third goes to make a barracks. All peasants afterwards are rallied to lumber.
Peasant that finished altar makes a farm. Make an Archmage, or a Mountain King - Archmage tends to work best, with his Water Elementas supproting your tech. I have become a big fan of Water Elementals - they may not do as much damage as Blizzard late-game, but unlike Blizzard, they drive away harass, and don't pretty much paint a "KILL ME" sign on your Archmage.
Peasant that finishes the farm makes another farm. You should be pumping peasants all this time, unitil you have 13 of them - 5 on gold, 8 on lumber. Along with your hero, that makes 18 supply.
Once the barracks is complete, make footmen. When you reach 220 lumber, if you lack the 310 gold, cancel a footman, and tech to tier 2. Put off this step until later in the game, if you are under heavy harass. Don't forget to keep making farms.
As soon as you get 60 more lumber, make a blacksmith. Resume pumping footmen. Make a shop when you can, and switch to Rifleman production, as soon as the blacksmith completes.
When you are half-way through the upgrade, check your supply, and resources - you should have at least 10 free supply when the upgrade completes, to train your second hero. You should also have at least 700 gold, and 400 lumber for that moment, too.
As soon as the upgrade is done, plunk down 1 arcane sanctum, and train your Mountain King, or Archmage if you chose MK fro primary. If you did, I suggest using Blizzard, instead of WE.
The reasoning behind these heroes, is that the Archmage can creep, and counter harass with his elementals, while the MK has some nice mana regen, to spam his Storm Bolt.
As soon as the sanctum is complete, here's where your units will differ, depending on your opponent.
If he's Orc, get sorceresses. Slow > grunts.
If he's NE, get priests. Dryads make Slow/poly useless. If he's getting bears, get Spellbreakers.
If he's UD, get priests ASAP! Dispell will save you against hordes of skeletons, slow will just be free mana for his Destroyers.
If he's Human, get spellbreakers, and priests - if he gets sorceresses, you can steal his slow. :D
Make about 4 of your chosen caster, getting the upgrade after building 2, and keep up on rifleman production. Don't forget to upgrade. At this point, you should try to engage your opponent, as you have the unit advantage. Human casters are awesome.
What does that build order work on?
Mass archers/talons/hippo riders.
Most orc builds, as long as your front line holds, until you get slow. After you get slow, it's Le Gee Gee, unless your opponent crippled you, in the early game. Keep your casters away from his Demolishers!
Ghoul/garg builds. If your opponent goes Fiend/Statue, it's much more difficult.
Massed human melee.
What is this build equal against?
Huntresses/dryads. If your opponent gets bears, you will need some melee for your frontline. Spellbreakers standing behind knights > bears. Spellbreakers without knights, though, are slaughtered.
Grunt, spirit tauren, demolisher. In this case, the orc build is quite expensive, so you should have the resource advantage.
Fiend/statues - they have a slight advantage.
Mass Wyvverns - they have increased mobility, but rifles counter wyvverns...
What to NOT use this build against?
NE players with mountain giants. Get some knights.
Dual AoW, early rushing NE.
Headhunter/grunt/demolisher mix - these are rare, but very effective.
Third tier air, paired with third tier melee. That's just sick.
Now, looking at the length of this post, and the time, I'll post the NE dual AoW ---> AoLore tech tomorrow.