08-25-2004, 03:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2004, 03:41 PM by Swiss Mercenary.)
As for the topic of hero harass:
If you are human, I bet you are having trouble against Orc. I'd dare say that 95% of Orc players know no other opening game "strategy" then Far Seer harass. FS harass is a big topic for various complaints, nerf suggestions, etc, because it's so freaking easy to do. summon wolves. Right click on peon. Run your FS around. Meanwhile, tech, and win.
The best way to counter Far seer harass, IMHO, is make your base much like a Starcraft Terran one - Wall in. Now, since you can't lift off your buildings, you should make a single space, wide enough to fit a hero through. If the harasser is stupid, and takes the bait, he will run into your base, and all you have to do is move a unit into the entrence, and order it to hold position. Then, call to arms, and watch him TP. Or, if he does not enter your base, try to spread the damage out between your peons, militia your lumber harvesters, and rip the wolves apart.
Here's the base build that I'm talking about:
T - Tree
G - Gold mine
. - Empty space
H - Hall
L - You harvest lumber here
r - Arcane tower
M - Farm
A - Altar
B - Barracks
L.TTTTTTTT
L.....G......T
L...........r.T
TBmH.mAT
T.............T
T.............T
The dot in the wall, is your "door". Close it with a militia, or a footmen, and everything inside is trapped. Make sure you rlumber harvesters are inside the wall-in. Not that the tower will be hitting any hero that tries to get in - not a nice prospect.
An alternative is the complete wallin. Leave no gap, but remember to rally your units outside of the wall-in, or they may get stuck inside, and watch where you TP. If the wall is attacked from the outside, use your peasants to repair.
For Night Elf, I'd say, towers are not needed in the early game. Late game, 3 at every expansion is nice, but early game, unnecessary. Instead, position your ancients in such a manner that any units trying to get into your base will have to run by them - and those that dare to try will be slapped pretty badly. If you are really paranoid, you can hide your wisps all over the map, near big creeps, etc - because they do not need to return to your hall, you can harvest lumber anywhere on the map.
Instead of towering up, focus on disabling the hero. If an Orc is harassing with wolves, detonate to kill both them, and the Far Seer's mana (And deny him experience in the meantime.) If it's a blademaster harassing, then get your Dust of Appearence, and try to root him near an ancient, or shadowstrike, and focus fire. Against human Archmage harass, run your wisps, focus on his hero.
One very, very nice trick that pretty much most of the better players use, as Night Elf, is to hire a mercenary with a dispell skill (Purge, or abolish magic), right as they get their hero out (You can also use a wisp). If you are teching, mercs are an excellent way to boost your army, as they do not require any production buildings. Notable ones are Troll Priests, that can both heal, and dispell wolves, for free exp, and Troll Berserkers, who do 33+ average damage per hit. Very nice - just don't lose them. However, don't try to burn too much moon well juice, as you may need it during the day.
Also, whatever happens, if you are being Far Seer harassed, remember this: "Focus fire on the wolves". They have fewer hit points, less armour, nearly no regen, but deal huge damage.
Edit: Also, note that Human towers have Light Armour, when they are in, or upgrading from Scout tower mode, and Heavy armour, after they are done. Hence, early game, if they are not finished, they are highly vulnerable to piercing, and late game, magic damage dealers (Heavy air, Pheonix, etc) just rips them apart.
If you are human, I bet you are having trouble against Orc. I'd dare say that 95% of Orc players know no other opening game "strategy" then Far Seer harass. FS harass is a big topic for various complaints, nerf suggestions, etc, because it's so freaking easy to do. summon wolves. Right click on peon. Run your FS around. Meanwhile, tech, and win.
The best way to counter Far seer harass, IMHO, is make your base much like a Starcraft Terran one - Wall in. Now, since you can't lift off your buildings, you should make a single space, wide enough to fit a hero through. If the harasser is stupid, and takes the bait, he will run into your base, and all you have to do is move a unit into the entrence, and order it to hold position. Then, call to arms, and watch him TP. Or, if he does not enter your base, try to spread the damage out between your peons, militia your lumber harvesters, and rip the wolves apart.
Here's the base build that I'm talking about:
T - Tree
G - Gold mine
. - Empty space
H - Hall
L - You harvest lumber here
r - Arcane tower
M - Farm
A - Altar
B - Barracks
L.TTTTTTTT
L.....G......T
L...........r.T
TBmH.mAT
T.............T
T.............T
The dot in the wall, is your "door". Close it with a militia, or a footmen, and everything inside is trapped. Make sure you rlumber harvesters are inside the wall-in. Not that the tower will be hitting any hero that tries to get in - not a nice prospect.
An alternative is the complete wallin. Leave no gap, but remember to rally your units outside of the wall-in, or they may get stuck inside, and watch where you TP. If the wall is attacked from the outside, use your peasants to repair.
For Night Elf, I'd say, towers are not needed in the early game. Late game, 3 at every expansion is nice, but early game, unnecessary. Instead, position your ancients in such a manner that any units trying to get into your base will have to run by them - and those that dare to try will be slapped pretty badly. If you are really paranoid, you can hide your wisps all over the map, near big creeps, etc - because they do not need to return to your hall, you can harvest lumber anywhere on the map.
Instead of towering up, focus on disabling the hero. If an Orc is harassing with wolves, detonate to kill both them, and the Far Seer's mana (And deny him experience in the meantime.) If it's a blademaster harassing, then get your Dust of Appearence, and try to root him near an ancient, or shadowstrike, and focus fire. Against human Archmage harass, run your wisps, focus on his hero.
One very, very nice trick that pretty much most of the better players use, as Night Elf, is to hire a mercenary with a dispell skill (Purge, or abolish magic), right as they get their hero out (You can also use a wisp). If you are teching, mercs are an excellent way to boost your army, as they do not require any production buildings. Notable ones are Troll Priests, that can both heal, and dispell wolves, for free exp, and Troll Berserkers, who do 33+ average damage per hit. Very nice - just don't lose them. However, don't try to burn too much moon well juice, as you may need it during the day.
Also, whatever happens, if you are being Far Seer harassed, remember this: "Focus fire on the wolves". They have fewer hit points, less armour, nearly no regen, but deal huge damage.
Edit: Also, note that Human towers have Light Armour, when they are in, or upgrading from Scout tower mode, and Heavy armour, after they are done. Hence, early game, if they are not finished, they are highly vulnerable to piercing, and late game, magic damage dealers (Heavy air, Pheonix, etc) just rips them apart.