06-17-2004, 10:52 PM
But in that respect, you're thinking that the effects by politcal action are greater than effects of musical influences.
It's certainly not that cut and dry. But from World War II on, U.S. policies directly influence just about every person in the world, and the president obviously has as big of a role in that as anyone. Very few individual musicians have influence that wide in scope, in my opinion.
I personally don't attribute the Fall of the Berlin Wall to be an achievment of Reagan's. It was destined to happen, whether Reagan had said anything about it or not. Every form of economy runs in a cycle. But you couple an crumbling economy with a corrupt government that can't pay for anything, and pro-democracy/pro-capitalism movements gaining more and more support you WILL get MAJOR governmental and political changes.
How many more years before real reform happens in China? I agree that the Iron Curtain was doomed to fall, but it could have taken a lot longer, or involved a *lot* more bloodshed. It's hard to know exactly where to give credit without a wide perspective from the Russian side of the story, which I have never heard much about. But I tend to think that Reagan and Gorbachev both deserve a lot of credit for what happened, even though it didn't happen during Reagan's terms and it led to Gorgachev's ouster.
Reagan also said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." But it wasn't the Russian troops or even Russian citizens that were tearing the wall down. It was the people of East and West Germany.
It was Gorbachev too. Do you think the Germans would have bold enough to do that during the peak years of the Soviet Union? If they had tried, would they have succeeded? If so, at what cost? The chain reaction that happened was not triggered by the Germans, although they seized their opportunity and moved forward quite successfully.
Music doesn't have borders, must like politics does.
That's debatable. If you look, for example, at music that makes a popular impact in the U.S., not only is it mostly American artists, but most of the foreign exceptions are British, Canadian, or Irish. Not to mention, listening to east coast rap in Compton could probably get you killed. (Do we have Ray Charles to thank for gansta rap and it's descendants?)
What my real point is that it's WRONG to put more value on one person's life than another.
The problem is, you were the one who started the comparison by saying that Ray Charles was more influential than Reagan. Then when someone tries to dispute that claim, you go this route.
I'm done talking about this here, lest this thread get too heated. If you want to take this further, I suggest that you PM me.
I never understood the whole "this is my last post on the topic" bit. You could have PM'd him instead of making this post. Instead you refute his points in public and expect him to respond privately. In that case, expect the thread to keep going with or without you.
It's certainly not that cut and dry. But from World War II on, U.S. policies directly influence just about every person in the world, and the president obviously has as big of a role in that as anyone. Very few individual musicians have influence that wide in scope, in my opinion.
I personally don't attribute the Fall of the Berlin Wall to be an achievment of Reagan's. It was destined to happen, whether Reagan had said anything about it or not. Every form of economy runs in a cycle. But you couple an crumbling economy with a corrupt government that can't pay for anything, and pro-democracy/pro-capitalism movements gaining more and more support you WILL get MAJOR governmental and political changes.
How many more years before real reform happens in China? I agree that the Iron Curtain was doomed to fall, but it could have taken a lot longer, or involved a *lot* more bloodshed. It's hard to know exactly where to give credit without a wide perspective from the Russian side of the story, which I have never heard much about. But I tend to think that Reagan and Gorbachev both deserve a lot of credit for what happened, even though it didn't happen during Reagan's terms and it led to Gorgachev's ouster.
Reagan also said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." But it wasn't the Russian troops or even Russian citizens that were tearing the wall down. It was the people of East and West Germany.
It was Gorbachev too. Do you think the Germans would have bold enough to do that during the peak years of the Soviet Union? If they had tried, would they have succeeded? If so, at what cost? The chain reaction that happened was not triggered by the Germans, although they seized their opportunity and moved forward quite successfully.
Music doesn't have borders, must like politics does.
That's debatable. If you look, for example, at music that makes a popular impact in the U.S., not only is it mostly American artists, but most of the foreign exceptions are British, Canadian, or Irish. Not to mention, listening to east coast rap in Compton could probably get you killed. (Do we have Ray Charles to thank for gansta rap and it's descendants?)
What my real point is that it's WRONG to put more value on one person's life than another.
The problem is, you were the one who started the comparison by saying that Ray Charles was more influential than Reagan. Then when someone tries to dispute that claim, you go this route.
I'm done talking about this here, lest this thread get too heated. If you want to take this further, I suggest that you PM me.
I never understood the whole "this is my last post on the topic" bit. You could have PM'd him instead of making this post. Instead you refute his points in public and expect him to respond privately. In that case, expect the thread to keep going with or without you.