12-14-2003, 01:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2003, 01:47 AM by [wcip]Angel.)
1 - Can internet language (Netspeak, aka "1337-speek") be considered a new form of language, or is it just jargon or at best a dialect?
For me, I find it difficult to be objective as I have an abhorrent hatred for "1337-speak" and thus am rather biased against labelling it as anything else than nonsensical jargon.
Nonetheless, being aware of this hatred, I still wouldn't label it a language. First of all, there are no set rules most present-day languages require. (there were no rules in Old-English, but that was 1000 years ago, and I do believe the definition of language has changed somewhat in that time period.) Second of all, there is no way of pronouncing "1337-speech." How do you distinguish "0\/\/nd" from "owned" in matters of pronunciation?
Is it a dialect then? In Norwegian the word "dialekt" has a geographical connotation to it.
The Oxford advanced learner's dictionary doesn't include the term "geographical" but speaks rather of an "area."
dialect {speaker} noun
[C, U] the form of a language that is spoken in one area with grammar, words and pronunciation that may be different from other forms of the same language.
Even though the dictionary doesn't mention geography, I do believe it's implied information. Can a dialect exist regardless of geography?
Excerpt from my book in "Norwegian studies" at my upper secondary school in Stavanger, Norway. (upper secondary = "high school" for you Americans.)
On page 392:
En dialekt er en variant av talespråket som vi finner
innenfor et bestemt geografisk område. Områder som
har vært isolert fra hverandre har utviklet hver sine
dialekter.
Dersom to dialekter fortsetter å utvikle seg ulikt, kan de
bli så ulike at vi heller snakker om to språk enn
om to dialekter. Islandsk språk var for eksempel
opprinnelig en norsk vestlandskdialekt, men den
språklige utviklingen har vært så ulik på Island og i de
norske fastlandsdialektene at vi idag regner islandsk
som et eget språk.
- Tekst og Tanke
Halvorsen, Jemterud, Semmen, 1999.
Allow me to translate:
"A dialect is a variant of the speaking pattern we find
within a certain geographical area ["Aha"- my note].
Areas which have been isolated from each other have
developed their own dialects.
If two dialects continue to change each in their different
way, they can be so different from each other, that
we're talking about two different languages.
Icelandic, for example, was originally a Norwegian
dialect derived from the western part of Norway, but
the linguistic changes have been so different on Iceland
from the Norwegian continental dialects that we today
speak of two different languages."
- Text and thought
Halvorsen, Jemterud, Semmen, 1999.
Conclusion: Dialects has to do with geography.
I think "1337"-speak is a sociolect. I just looked up this word in the dictionary, and there is nothing called "sociolect", but there is a Norwegian word for it.
I'll just translate what's in the book:
... this is not what's in the book. Upon reading about sociolects, I discovered that it has to do with social status of the speakers, however I think I might have found what I was looking for.
"Dialect: Linguistic variants based on geographical setting.
Sociolect: Socially determined [having to do with class - my note] variants of language."
And then, the important part:
"Field-language: A kind of sociolect where the speakers belong to the same occupation or partake in similar (social)[my note] activities."
But what is this "field language"?
Just for the hell of it, I looked up the word "jargon":
jargon {speaker}, AmE {speaker} noun
[U] (often disapproving) words or expressions that are used by a particular profession or group of people, and are difficult for others to understand:
medical / legal / computer jargon ⢠Try to avoid using too much technical jargon.
To me, it sounds like they're talking about the same thing. "Field-language"= "jargon" (but without the negative connotations to it, warranted or not ;))
2. 2 - Are there any teachers or professors out there that wish to share an anecdote of student usage of internet language? (Shortcuts in schoolwork, etc.) I'm all ears.
I'm not a teacher yet, so sorry.. no anecdotes from me. I can tell you one thing: if one of my students ever use "1337-speech" in an essay, I'll rip off his kneecaps.
3. For everyone whose first-learned language is something other than English, how do you feel about the amount of English on the internet? Do you feel that you must communicate in English in order to get your point across?
Again, I feel terribly biased, as I'm a student of English, and actually have a natural fondless/love for the English language, moreso than my mother tongue.
I can only speak for myself, but my language (Norwegian) is pathetically poor in lexicon. I don't know how many words there are in the Norwegian language, but I' quite certain English has somewhere between 5 and 10 times more. Expressing oneself fluently and clearly is much easier in English than it is in Norwegian for me. Again I must state, that I am a student of English. This is not the case for most people. I know there are several people who fear the English language and are reluctant to express themselves because they're afraid of saying something wrong, or come with Norwegianisms (there's a Norwegianism in that last sentence, I know; I just had to include it.)
For those who don't understand the term, "Norwegianism" is a idiomatic Norwegian phrase, translated word for word into English, which turns it into a non-idiomatic English phrase.
Perhaps this fear of expressing oneself correctly is one of the reasons to the influx in "1337-speakers". They form their own language, with no rules, so that no one can tell if they're writing incorrect or not? The irony is that, in trying to express themselves in a way that can't be interpreted as 'incorrect', they're really writing "more wrong" than they would have if they had tried writing proper English.
Conclusion:
I'm biased. Not only do I love the English language; I actually prefer it to Norwegian. Therefore, I cannot possibly be a representative candidate for the rest of the populace in this regard. (Or in any other for that matter, but that's a whole different can of worms.) I should also mention that I believe a multitude of languages on the Internet can only slow down the flow of information. By posting information in a language other than English, be it an article on nuclear warfare or a guide to a videogame, you're severely limiting the number of people who can benefit from and enjoy that information.
4. Good luck. I have the utmost respect for those writing about something as complex as language.
For me, I find it difficult to be objective as I have an abhorrent hatred for "1337-speak" and thus am rather biased against labelling it as anything else than nonsensical jargon.
Nonetheless, being aware of this hatred, I still wouldn't label it a language. First of all, there are no set rules most present-day languages require. (there were no rules in Old-English, but that was 1000 years ago, and I do believe the definition of language has changed somewhat in that time period.) Second of all, there is no way of pronouncing "1337-speech." How do you distinguish "0\/\/nd" from "owned" in matters of pronunciation?
Is it a dialect then? In Norwegian the word "dialekt" has a geographical connotation to it.
The Oxford advanced learner's dictionary doesn't include the term "geographical" but speaks rather of an "area."
dialect {speaker} noun
[C, U] the form of a language that is spoken in one area with grammar, words and pronunciation that may be different from other forms of the same language.
Even though the dictionary doesn't mention geography, I do believe it's implied information. Can a dialect exist regardless of geography?
Excerpt from my book in "Norwegian studies" at my upper secondary school in Stavanger, Norway. (upper secondary = "high school" for you Americans.)
On page 392:
En dialekt er en variant av talespråket som vi finner
innenfor et bestemt geografisk område. Områder som
har vært isolert fra hverandre har utviklet hver sine
dialekter.
Dersom to dialekter fortsetter å utvikle seg ulikt, kan de
bli så ulike at vi heller snakker om to språk enn
om to dialekter. Islandsk språk var for eksempel
opprinnelig en norsk vestlandskdialekt, men den
språklige utviklingen har vært så ulik på Island og i de
norske fastlandsdialektene at vi idag regner islandsk
som et eget språk.
- Tekst og Tanke
Halvorsen, Jemterud, Semmen, 1999.
Allow me to translate:
"A dialect is a variant of the speaking pattern we find
within a certain geographical area ["Aha"- my note].
Areas which have been isolated from each other have
developed their own dialects.
If two dialects continue to change each in their different
way, they can be so different from each other, that
we're talking about two different languages.
Icelandic, for example, was originally a Norwegian
dialect derived from the western part of Norway, but
the linguistic changes have been so different on Iceland
from the Norwegian continental dialects that we today
speak of two different languages."
- Text and thought
Halvorsen, Jemterud, Semmen, 1999.
Conclusion: Dialects has to do with geography.
I think "1337"-speak is a sociolect. I just looked up this word in the dictionary, and there is nothing called "sociolect", but there is a Norwegian word for it.
I'll just translate what's in the book:
... this is not what's in the book. Upon reading about sociolects, I discovered that it has to do with social status of the speakers, however I think I might have found what I was looking for.
"Dialect: Linguistic variants based on geographical setting.
Sociolect: Socially determined [having to do with class - my note] variants of language."
And then, the important part:
"Field-language: A kind of sociolect where the speakers belong to the same occupation or partake in similar (social)[my note] activities."
But what is this "field language"?
Just for the hell of it, I looked up the word "jargon":
jargon {speaker}, AmE {speaker} noun
[U] (often disapproving) words or expressions that are used by a particular profession or group of people, and are difficult for others to understand:
medical / legal / computer jargon ⢠Try to avoid using too much technical jargon.
To me, it sounds like they're talking about the same thing. "Field-language"= "jargon" (but without the negative connotations to it, warranted or not ;))
2. 2 - Are there any teachers or professors out there that wish to share an anecdote of student usage of internet language? (Shortcuts in schoolwork, etc.) I'm all ears.
I'm not a teacher yet, so sorry.. no anecdotes from me. I can tell you one thing: if one of my students ever use "1337-speech" in an essay, I'll rip off his kneecaps.
3. For everyone whose first-learned language is something other than English, how do you feel about the amount of English on the internet? Do you feel that you must communicate in English in order to get your point across?
Again, I feel terribly biased, as I'm a student of English, and actually have a natural fondless/love for the English language, moreso than my mother tongue.
I can only speak for myself, but my language (Norwegian) is pathetically poor in lexicon. I don't know how many words there are in the Norwegian language, but I' quite certain English has somewhere between 5 and 10 times more. Expressing oneself fluently and clearly is much easier in English than it is in Norwegian for me. Again I must state, that I am a student of English. This is not the case for most people. I know there are several people who fear the English language and are reluctant to express themselves because they're afraid of saying something wrong, or come with Norwegianisms (there's a Norwegianism in that last sentence, I know; I just had to include it.)
For those who don't understand the term, "Norwegianism" is a idiomatic Norwegian phrase, translated word for word into English, which turns it into a non-idiomatic English phrase.
Perhaps this fear of expressing oneself correctly is one of the reasons to the influx in "1337-speakers". They form their own language, with no rules, so that no one can tell if they're writing incorrect or not? The irony is that, in trying to express themselves in a way that can't be interpreted as 'incorrect', they're really writing "more wrong" than they would have if they had tried writing proper English.
Conclusion:
I'm biased. Not only do I love the English language; I actually prefer it to Norwegian. Therefore, I cannot possibly be a representative candidate for the rest of the populace in this regard. (Or in any other for that matter, but that's a whole different can of worms.) I should also mention that I believe a multitude of languages on the Internet can only slow down the flow of information. By posting information in a language other than English, be it an article on nuclear warfare or a guide to a videogame, you're severely limiting the number of people who can benefit from and enjoy that information.
4. Good luck. I have the utmost respect for those writing about something as complex as language.
